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Barry, Big Mac, and the Hall

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Postby bleach168 » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:42 am

HOOTIE wrote:
bleach168 wrote:All I know is Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa and if it is proven that these guys cheated, no way would I vote them into the HoF. If you get caught, bottomline, you should be punished. So if Bonds hypothetically hit 200 homeruns while juiced, not only do those 200 get taken away, but an additional 200 legit homeruns should be taken away leaving him with 300.

One, even if convicted, there's no way to prove they hit 200 more or 1 more. Second, until 2003, roids were not illegal in MLB. Between 84-96 players tested positive that year, with no suspensions. Somebody in MLB must have had a good reason there were no rules against it. It's not the players job to decide the rules, just play by the rules. You can't go back in time and say deduct this, or asterisk that. It's insane. If you want to enforce the penalty at the time like (George Brett's pine tar hr), fine.

Oh no way should the players be off the hook. It's the player's union that is largely responsible for the joke of a drug policy we've had and continue to have.

I agree that it's hard to tell exactly how many homers should be taken away. Maybe instead just use some universal number like -100 off your career homers for getting caught the first time, -300 the second time, permanent ban from baseball the third time.
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Postby Boogster26 » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:17 am

It's true. Steroids wasn't against MLB rules before 2003. Neither was armed robbery, mail fraud, or shoplifting. The problem is that possessing steroids, like those acts, is against the law. Even before 2003, baseball players weren't allowed to use steroids any more than they were allowed to rob liquor stores.

As for Mark McGwire, Hall of Fame issues aside, he deserves a special place in baseball's Hall of Infamy. Mark McGwire did more than take steroids and hit a bunch of home runs. On top of that, he marketed himself as an icon and role model for "all-American boys." There was no innocence in that act. It was one of the most cynical exercises in self-aggrandizement I have ever witnessed.

Nonetheless, to many young men, McGwire became a hero. How many of the millions of high school athletes took steroids because they were emulating their role model-- Mark McGwire?

I don't know what they should do about the HOF issue. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Bobby Crosby...all of them were using steroids. With baseball's long history of cheating and racial inequality, from spitballs to all-white leagues, I'm not so sure it makes sense to suddenly start excluding people from the Hall of Fame for cheating.

But I do know one thing. Mark McGwire is a vain, dangerous human being who, like many criminals, responded to getting caught with more lies and arrogance. This is man so puffed up by his own estimation of himself that he walked into the US Senate and answered questions by saying, "I don't want look at the past. I only want to look to the future guys."

He is still wanting to lead our youth in looking to the future. He is still so wierdly deluded about his own importance that he addresses US senators as "guys." And he is still, obviously, completely without conscience.

What Mark McGwire should have said was, "I have sinned. I am sorry."
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Postby kentx12 » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:19 am

The Miner Part 2 wrote:
SouthBronxBombers wrote:What about us black people who think Barry is a lying jerk, deuce? Are we racists that hate ourselves? Trying to claim that the animosity towards Barry is racist is asinine. In case you have missed it, it is a black man's record he is going to break. Why would racists care if a black man broke another black man's record? Barry is disliked because he is a pompous jerk, a cheater, a liar, an adulterer and just generally a sorry excuse for a human being. He blames everybody but himself for the things he has done. The media and racists did not force him to go have an affair. They did not force him to "unknowingly" use steroids, and his credibility on that issue is about as good as David Duke's on how good a man Dr. King was. Bonds made his own bed, and he doesn't want to lie in it. Barry has made conscious choices his entire life, and his sycophants want to ignore that and just blame everything on somebody else. A man owns up to his responsibilities and actions, he doesn't try to lay them off on somebody else. Bonds is a complete loser, and his race has nothing to do with that fact. He and his apologists want it to shield him, by claiming the criticsm is based in racism. It ain't. And it is an insult to those who faced real racism and rose above it.

you cant see, but im giving you a standing ovation as i type this. ;-)

Wow. The Miner and myself finally agree. ;-D
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