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Another Step in the Right Direction (steroid policy)

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Postby great gretzky » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:33 pm

"So should we just legalize drugs as well? Let the players shoot up heroin before the game too? Tommy John surgery and eye surgery repair a players body...they, in a sense, return a body to its original form"

Technically, that is exactly what steroids do. The reason they are effective is that they let your muscles heal quicker than they would naturally. When you lift weights, you break down your muscle. they get bigger and stronger because they heal, and the new tissue is tougher than the tissue it is replacing.

My point is not that it is inert. But my point is that it is matter of degree. Everyone argues that it is "unnatural" -- but what is natural?


Tons of pitchers have gotten tommoy john surgery, even if it wasn't needed. Because the fact is, your arm is stronger afterward than it was before. Is that "cheating"? Is that "unnatural"? Tiger woods got lasik eye surgery even though his vision feel within the normal range. But he wanted better vision. Is that "cheating"? Is that unnatural? what about guys who use contacts that actually improve vision past 20-20?

Most of the steroid studies have been based on the way the existed back in the day, small sample sizes, imperfect versions of the drug etc. Are you arguing that medical science hasn't improved? almost ever chemical is both harmful and benefical -- the only differince lies in the purity and the dose.

Everyone assumes steroids are so bad. That is probably the case...

But as I see it, there are two tests that have to be met ...

First, is it harmful, and to what degree. Lets assume that it is ...

Second, why do we not allow baseball players to harm their life expectancy, but allow cops, fireman, oil rig operators, boxers, footabll players you name it -- to harm their physical health and shorten their life expectancy, but all of a sudden baseball players aren't allowed to make a mature decision about their career.

Like I said, most people would choose quality over quantity in their life if they had a choice. Well pro ballplayers have that choice.

your example of unions is both dead on and dead wrong at the same time. Policemen unions make sure their charges area s safe as possible, which is distinctly different than "totally safe". Everyone involved knows there is a risk. The difference is you can't be a good policeman without accepting that risk. In contrast, you can be a good baseball player without doing roids. The difference is that the power guys are well aware of their station.

bonds is a unique case as he was good without them. He is an adult, able to make adult decisions.

As far as your comment that chemists are only making roids that can't be dected ... are you a capitalist? You don't think there would be a market for safer roid if it could be made?

The fact is the caliber of care and drugs that the elite are doing is fundamentally different than what joe schmoe is doing in the gyms.

If the authorites can't even detect the new ones, how are they even qyualified to comment on its safety?

Granted, it may or may not be safe? But plenty of people every day do dumb crap that we don't feel qualified to legislate. People ahve unprotected sex, people smoke, people gorge their blood with cholesterol, people don't even use their seatbelts. The fact is, we usually let adults decide for the most part, how they address their health.

I think the "unnatural" argument is BS, as there are tons of "unnatural", things that go down in basbeall and other major sports, not the least of which, the major painkillers that are used. Those are drugs, and those are alos illegal to the common man.

If you want to make the case that others feel compelled to use steroids to keep up, then I would agree with you -- and is probably the one reason I would vote against their use until more info is had (and don't give me the nonsense that it is already in, because there is a ton of work left to do on the subject). But as it pertains to records etc, the records stand. Bonds is being compared against the other roid heads, and he compares favorably.

incidentally, this isn't the time nor the forum to discuss drug leaglaization -- but as it stands, steroids are legal with a doctor's prescription. So as it stands, who is to say they are unsafe if they atre adminsited under a doctor's care? We allow people to do TONS of things that aren't in their best interest, why stop at professionals who want an edge?
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Postby thehat » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:45 pm

There's no test for the good stuff, so the union may as well go ahead and sign on for the upgraded penalties.

Pick up a copy of Will Carroll's new book, "The Juice"...just got released and it's absolutely eye-opening in terms of detailing things 99% of us almost assuredly didn't know about what's available now and what's just around the corner.

The bottom line is that the only guys that are going to test positive are basically idiots.

I do like the fact that Bud wants to also include amphetamine testing.
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Postby Oat Soda » Sun May 01, 2005 3:53 am

I wonder, though, how much of this is just BS to get Congress off baseball's back? Maybe Selig is doing like a certain politician proposing certain reform knowing it has no chance of passing, but at least starting some dialogue or whatever. It worked for a certain politician on a certain issue as governor of a certain state, after all.
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