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fbb ethics, or, what to do about a lopsided trade...

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:58 pm
by hardboiled
i'm in a private league with a bunch of friends, all of whom are pretty active; it's a competitive league, but there's no money at stake.

i just pulled off a heist, getting HMatsui for BLyon straight up from a guy who's been in second place for most of the early going (behind me in first). this ignited a storm of controversy from the other owners who voted the trade down, but it was accepted by the sportsline commissioner so it went through over the objections of the league.

my question is, should i do anything about the situation? i feel kinda bad, i mean, obviously the guy has never heard of "buy low, sell high". same owner also made some questionable draft picks (G Anderson 2nd round) so i'm guessin he's a newbie at fantasy sports (though he has made savvy moves too, grabbing turnbow, hermanson, etc off the WW). there have been other trades that have been less than perfectly even, but nothing so one-sided as this. should i be a "good sport" and offer to give Matsui back, or offer another player to even out the deal, even though it has already been processed? or just let him learn his lesson?

i should note, he made the first trade offer; i countered and he quickly accepted.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:08 pm
by Rirruto
I'd let him learn his mistake and let it stand. He's got to learn somehow.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:16 pm
by great gretzky
its rip -- but closers are always overvalued, especially one like lyon essentially. if the guy needs saves and thinks he will keep it up .. . what can you do?

I don't think it should be vetoed, but I think he should be mocked.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:43 pm
by xeifrank
If Lyons remains the Diamondbacks closer for the remainder of the year, I think it is a good trade for him. After all, look at where some of the top closers like Gagne, Lidge, Rivera and Wagner got drafted. They got drafted ahead of H.Matsui. Lyons has alot of saves, and Arizona has been winning alot of games. Outfield is probably the deepest position, and if he needs saves then there is nothing wrong with this trade, espeically if he is stacked at OF. I wouldn't veto or ask for this trade to be vetoed. We would be able to tell a little bit more about the evenness of this trade knowing both rosters and how each team is doing in each category of the standings.



PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:03 pm
by great gretzky
good point.

how many Of's do you have to start?

this guy could theoretically be stacked in the Of if you only start three.

Say he drafted manny, beltran or vlad in the first, crawford in the second, and has another quality Of like andruw jones, cory patterson, damon etc.

Sometimes you end up with more quality Of's than you need. they guy should be able to overpay if he feels it is necessary.

that said, it is still kind of a rip, but some people tend to undervalue hideki, so what are you going to do.

If no one else would give him a waulity closer, what is he suppossed to do?

say "oh well then, I'll keep hideki rather than helping my team, rather that then people feel I got ripped off"

I am currently in the inverse positon. I can't get the "real value" of lidge, as the people who need him and have the positions I need represent a drop off in value. I may trade him for delgado simply because I need a CI, and the people that both have one to spare, and need a closer are a select few, and delgado is the best hitter of those teams.
Not saying I will, only bringing it up, because sometimes, value is relative depending on needs. sometimes, its just not that easy to get a closer.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:32 pm
by hardboiled
He needed saves, although he has KRod he's got no one else. It was the Turnbow/Hermanson/Chad Fox pickups that got me to suggest we do a deal. His OF is not exactly loaded... We start 5 and Matsui was his best guy there.

But what can I say, I proposed a counter offer that I didn't expect to be accepted, just to negotiate from. He took it. Other owners are pissed b/c I'm already in first by a long ways, and I got another allstar for a bargain price. Some would say that's what this game's about...

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:35 pm
by great gretzky
i'd say that as well. may think they are in first so don't want to screw it up. what was his OF?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:42 pm
by TheRawDAWG
I don't think this trade is vetoable. And if I made the trade I wouldn't feel bad at all. I'd tell the rest of the league to shove it. This trade is easily defensable. Lyon leads the league in saves. Hedeki is a great player but like someone else has already stated if Lyon ends up leading the league in saves or being a top notch closer all season then really, who is getting the better end of the deal?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:45 pm
by hardboiled
G Anderson
C Everett
R Sanders
M Kotsay
C Biggio
M Holliday

That's his OF after the trade. Before, it obviously included Matsui. He also dumped Larry Walker to the WW right after we did the deal. Probably not the smartest decision he ever made...

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:17 pm
by SouthBronxBombers
Let me ask you something, what was his original offer? You said you countered with this one.

If you have a question about what you did being unethical, why did you ask for Matsui in the first place? Obviously you think it was to some extent, or you would not be asking. You're in a league with friends, so why do something that can alieniate them by making trades that can upset the competitive balance of the league? I just don't understand that philosophy. If you are concerned about the ethics involved, I fail to understand why you made the offer in the first place. You've pissed off your friends for the sake of what? So you can go to a website and brag about what a rip job you did on somebody else? Lots of extra value in that trade, huh?