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Tone in Seattle regarding Beltre

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Postby BobbyRoberto » Sat May 28, 2005 1:48 am

Another Seattlelite chiming in: people I've talked to are resigned to the fact that the M's stink this year, just as much or worse than last year (which was pretty damn bad). There was a lot of hope with the signings of Beltre and Sexson, but 1/4 of the way through the season, that hope has faded. Beltre hasn't yet been hammered for being the "suckiest suck that ever sucked" because Seattle is the "Nicest" city in the world, the media is very pro-Mariners and when you watch the game on TV, you'll hear never a discouraging word from announcers Dave Niehaus, Rick Rizzs, and company.

Knowledgeable baseball fans, for example, at: http://www.ussmariner.com/ are a lot more critical than the rest of the public. They point out gaping black holes at C, SS, and 3B, so far, with Bret Boone's rapid decline at 2B also being mentioned. And that's before you get to the crappy starting pitchers. Also, the length and amount of the Beltre contract looks to make Jeff Cirillo's horrible tenure with the Mariners pale in comparison as far as bad contracts go.

This is a guy who's had 1 good year in the last 4 and cashed in big-time on it:
2001: .721 OPS
2002: .729 OPS
2003: .714 OPS
2004: 1.017 OPS
2005: .626 OPS
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat May 28, 2005 2:34 am

Who cares what talk radio says? Entertaining maybe, informative not.

Beltre is struggling like most the other guys who switched leagues. It's only week 8. Facing new pitchers, trying to find a comfort zone, and trying to prove to those goons on talk radio he was worth signing. Beltre is there 5 years. Don't judge a guy on 8 weeks.
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Postby rjforlife » Sat May 28, 2005 8:59 am

last week while the sonics were still in the playoffs i was following a mariners game and they got down 5-2 in the 2nd and I said to my seattle buddy "M's are down early". to which he responded "dont talk to me about the mariners right now" now that the sonics are out of the playoffs i broached the subject again, and i got the same response. seattle fans are really down on the team and especially the 2 big money free agents and their noticable lack of production. how could you not be down on beltre. what reason is there to think he will turn it around. suck for 7 seven years, juice for a contract year, and then start sucking again is an easy pattern in my mind. looks like 6 2/3 more years of sucking for beltre, hopefully followed promptly by retiring.
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Postby Tribe-Fan » Sat May 28, 2005 9:45 am

HOOTIE wrote:Who cares what talk radio says? Entertaining maybe, informative not.

Beltre is struggling like most the other guys who switched leagues. It's only week 8. Facing new pitchers, trying to find a comfort zone, and trying to prove to those goons on talk radio he was worth signing. Beltre is there 5 years. Don't judge a guy on 8 weeks.


As usual Hootie lends a little sanity to the discussion. His comments about the league switch are accurate. People need to also keep in mind that Beltre is a 2nd half player.

Pre-break OPS / Post break OPS
2001: .702 / .733
2002: .646 / .849
2003: .642 / .801
2004: .935 / 1.106
2005: .629 / .???

New league + time to get comfortable + 2nd half player = buy low target.

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Postby reznorsboy » Sat May 28, 2005 12:22 pm

I'll tell you what I say...He is horrible and a bum and I can't wait much longer before I unload his a** for Dallas Mcpherson
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Postby hybrid » Sat May 28, 2005 12:31 pm

Tribe-Fan wrote:New league + time to get comfortable + 2nd half player = buy low target.

TF


I would say that is true, but just watching him at bat makes me think otherwise. He honestly looks like he doesn't have much of a clue up there, he looks like the Beltre pre-last season. It's one thing to struggle to hit against new pitchers, but different IMO when you fall back into old habits.
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Postby Tribe-Fan » Sat May 28, 2005 12:52 pm

He does look a little clueless right now, which is a natural progression of sorts.

He is struggling, there is pressue, both from the fat contract and the fact that the team and city is expecting big things from thier new # 3 hitter. So he goes to the plate with the thought "man, I have GOT to start making something happen!!" racing through his head. And where does that lead? To chasing bad pitches, pressing and trying too hard to be the go-to guy.

His swing is still compact and strong, when he shows some paitence and hits his pitches, which obviously has not been often, he drives them. I just think a strong case can be made to wait it out, or to get him cheap if you can.

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Postby Simulacrum » Sat May 28, 2005 12:58 pm

amich1 wrote:I follow seattle sports closely. People there aren't giving up on beltre, they're giving up on the entire team. Long season ahead. General consensus seems to be that Beltre will produce, but only if others around him start to hit. This is a team problem, not a beltre problem. Beltre has not performed below the rest of the team (which frankly, is about impossible to do) like say a Jeter early last yr., so he has been spared some of the scorn. He doesn't have a disproportionate l.o.b. or anything like that which would indicate he is the source of their woes. He has been no great shakes, but the General consensus is that they fixed some problems while ignoring too many others (mainly catching, ss, oh yeah, and PITCHING). Seriously, counting on 42yr. old Moyer to anchor your staff is folly @ best, the 1-2 punch of Olivo/Wilson, behind the plate is knocking them dead, and there are guys playing college baseball right now who could produce better #'s @ s.s. Seattle media seems to recognize the reality of the situation, the mariners are going to lose alot, but it is not all on beltre's shoulders.


Thanks for the intelligent local analysis. ;-D

reznorsboy wrote:I'll tell you what I say...He is horrible and a bum and I can't wait much longer before I unload his a** for Dallas Mcpherson


That strikes me as a rash decision and a mistake :-?

There are a lot of factors involved here. You've heard them all before- new team, new league, high expectations from everyone including himself stemming from the insane contract, struggling teammates around him, stronger second half player, 'roids? etc.

That adds up to a lot. And his numbers are not that bad compared to players like V-Mart and Chavez who don't have nearly that many potential excuses. He has shown signs. Remember the Randy Johnson fastball he unloaded in the seats? And the 450 foot bomb he nailed last week? It would be foolish to expect 48 bombs again this season, but equally foolish not to expect him to improve. Bench him but don't unload him.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat May 28, 2005 4:21 pm

reznorsboy wrote:I'll tell you what I say...He is horrible and a bum and I can't wait much longer before I unload his a** for Dallas Mcpherson



You can't be serious? Dallas is only 1 year younger then Beltre, yet Beltre has been in bigs since he was a teenager, while Dallas had it easier in the minors. Dallas has a long uppercut swing. He K's a ton. Good power, can crush fastballs, but is lost on breaking stuff. Could be a Russell Branyan clone. Beltre has more talent, and the better track record.

TRIBE-FAN, good to see you again. Good point on Beltre's big 2nd halfs. In the last 3 years, his slugging% rose .139 the 2nd half.

You Beltre bashers can have your roids nonsense. Beltre hit 290 with 20 hrs at age 20. Dodger Stadium has hurt him, as his career road numbers aren't bad. He was sick, lost 40 lbs, which hurt his numbers for 2 years. As for Seattle fans who are crying that Beltre stinks, go have a latte, as Beltre will have the last laugh.
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