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Players that got snubbed

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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:25 pm

JustAnotherYanksFan wrote:
IVIisfits138 wrote:White Sox without Podsednik = Ass.
White Sox with Podsednik = Good.

Does Pods have anything to do with the team winning? Maybe. Sometimes All Star status go beyond stats.


I think the success of the White Sox might have more to do with the fact that they're first in the MLB in Team ERA, as opposed to 25th last year. Buehrle, Garcia and Garland are all having monster years, and their bullpen has been awesome. All I'm saying is that just because Podsednik is there now and wasn't before, that doesn't mean that he's the reason for their success. (The fact that they are 11th in the MLB in runs scored this year - as opposed to 3rd last year - also supports the idea that their pitching, and not Podsednik, is the reason for their success.)

So I wouldn't say Podsednik got snubbed. Oswalt definitely did though, and I think an argument could probably be made for Brett Myers or Josh Beckett. I also think Cliff Floyd probably should be in there as well.


Exactly!

Put this one in the "correlation does not equal causation" file. The White Sox are winning this year primarily due to their improved pitching. Their offense with Podsednik at the top is WORSE.
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Postby bigh0rt » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:52 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
JustAnotherYanksFan wrote:
IVIisfits138 wrote:White Sox without Podsednik = Ass.
White Sox with Podsednik = Good.

Does Pods have anything to do with the team winning? Maybe. Sometimes All Star status go beyond stats.


I think the success of the White Sox might have more to do with the fact that they're first in the MLB in Team ERA, as opposed to 25th last year. Buehrle, Garcia and Garland are all having monster years, and their bullpen has been awesome. All I'm saying is that just because Podsednik is there now and wasn't before, that doesn't mean that he's the reason for their success. (The fact that they are 11th in the MLB in runs scored this year - as opposed to 3rd last year - also supports the idea that their pitching, and not Podsednik, is the reason for their success.)

So I wouldn't say Podsednik got snubbed. Oswalt definitely did though, and I think an argument could probably be made for Brett Myers or Josh Beckett. I also think Cliff Floyd probably should be in there as well.


Exactly!

Put this one in the "correlation does not equal causation" file. The White Sox are winning this year primarily due to their improved pitching. Their offense with Podsednik at the top is WORSE.


;-D

Right on the money. People sometimes forget that while Podsednik is great to have on your fantasy team, in baseball, his ability past the stolen base is next to none. :-t
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Postby speedy27 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:08 pm

my all time snubs were...Oswalt, Pods, C.Crawford, C.Floyd and J.Guillen...of course they all can't go!
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:15 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
JustAnotherYanksFan wrote:
IVIisfits138 wrote:White Sox without Podsednik = Ass.
White Sox with Podsednik = Good.

Does Pods have anything to do with the team winning? Maybe. Sometimes All Star status go beyond stats.


I think the success of the White Sox might have more to do with the fact that they're first in the MLB in Team ERA, as opposed to 25th last year. Buehrle, Garcia and Garland are all having monster years, and their bullpen has been awesome. All I'm saying is that just because Podsednik is there now and wasn't before, that doesn't mean that he's the reason for their success. (The fact that they are 11th in the MLB in runs scored this year - as opposed to 3rd last year - also supports the idea that their pitching, and not Podsednik, is the reason for their success.)

So I wouldn't say Podsednik got snubbed. Oswalt definitely did though, and I think an argument could probably be made for Brett Myers or Josh Beckett. I also think Cliff Floyd probably should be in there as well.


Exactly!

Put this one in the "correlation does not equal causation" file. The White Sox are winning this year primarily due to their improved pitching. Their offense with Podsednik at the top is WORSE.


;-D

Right on the money. People sometimes forget that while Podsednik is great to have on your fantasy team, in baseball, his ability past the stolen base is next to none. :-t


Next to none? :-?

Why is that? I tend to feel that the stolen base actually has more value in real life. It doesn't affect some pitcher but others get completely screwed up by having a guy on base, especially one who steals 40 in half a season. Some pitchers change their delivery, their timing, everything.

In real baseball a basestealer completely changes the complextion of the the game, not to mention the pitch selection to the guy at the plate.

Also, while we know that "clutch hitting" doesn't exist (ie. you can't try harder to hit a HR in a clutch situation) a base stealer can choose when to steal a bag. You'll see a lot of HRs in blowout games where the HR is worthless to everybody but a fantasy owner but you will only see a SB in a meaningful situation.

So I don't get why the SB has next to no significance in real life.
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Postby Octavian » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:28 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:
go_jays_go wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Roy Oswalt.


Completely Agree.

He should make it..




:-? :-? ummm... oswalt did make the all star team.....





anyways my 3 snubs are ensberg, jose guillen, and matt clement.... those 3 should have been in fairly easily imo... and with a injury or 2 this week, i imagine they will be the first ones the managers call upon....


:-? :-? ummm... no, no he didn't.
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Postby go_jays_go » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:30 pm

SominaDei wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:
go_jays_go wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Roy Oswalt.


Completely Agree.

He should make it..




:-? :-? ummm... oswalt did make the all star team.....





anyways my 3 snubs are ensberg, jose guillen, and matt clement.... those 3 should have been in fairly easily imo... and with a injury or 2 this week, i imagine they will be the first ones the managers call upon....


:-? :-? ummm... no, no he didn't.


Yeah Raiders, Oswalt didn't make it..
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:40 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:

Next to none? :-?

Why is that? I tend to feel that the stolen base actually has more value in real life. It doesn't affect some pitcher but others get completely screwed up by having a guy on base, especially one who steals 40 in half a season. Some pitchers change their delivery, their timing, everything.

In real baseball a basestealer completely changes the complextion of the the game, not to mention the pitch selection to the guy at the plate.

Also, while we know that "clutch hitting" doesn't exist (ie. you can't try harder to hit a HR in a clutch situation) a base stealer can choose when to steal a bag. You'll see a lot of HRs in blowout games where the HR is worthless to everybody but a fantasy owner but you will only see a SB in a meaningful situation.

So I don't get why the SB has next to no significance in real life.


Well, I wouldn't say next to none, because he does ge on base at an OK rate, but his total lack of power really limits his ability to contribute.

Studies that have looked at how hitters and pitchers perform with a basestealer on first show that it actually hurts the hitter more. It seems that the data indicate that it's even more distracting to the hitter than to the pitcher.
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Postby bigh0rt » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:51 pm

I wasn't saying that the SB has no significance in real life; quite the contrary. What I was saying was, as far as Podsednik goes, past his ability to steal bases, he himself doesn't have much value (maybe you took that, and will continue to take it, as a knock on the stolen base, but it's not intended to do so). What I'm saying is, as a leadoff hitter last year, Podsednik stole 70 bags, also K'd 105 times to only 58 BB, bat .244, .313 OBP, with 85 runs. Granted, his 2003 numbers far surpassed those of last year, and he appears to be somewhere in between 2003 and 2004 so far this year (slightly above his career numbers, as well), he doesn't bring to the table many of the attributes that I would want from my leadoff hitter, like the ability to avoid K's, rack up EBHs, etc.
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Postby HOOTIE » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:52 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:Why is that? I tend to feel that the stolen base actually has more value in real life.

So I don't get why the SB has next to no significance in real life.


Nah. The sb has far more value in fantasy. Look how sb affect fantasy $ values.

Irl, the sb can be significant if it's a big sb like Dave Roberts had in Game 4. But over a season, linear weights has shown that a sb is worth only (.17) of a run. A caught stealing is worth (-.45). So you need to have a 72% success rate to break even. Sb are only 1 extra base. Once you factor in the negative (CS -outs made), the value is marginal. People look at the # of sb, and equate that with success. But the success rate is much more telling. A guy who steals 40, but gets caught 20 times, shouldn't be running. A guy who steals 14/15 has done a much better job. The sb has some value, but is overrated. Like a 30/30 guy. They equate a sb to a hr, crazy.

Pods is not a snub.
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Postby baseballnewb » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:13 pm

Those numbers are nice and all, but they don't take into effect how a pitcher reacts to a big SB guy on first base. More fastballs for the hitter at the plate, distracted pitcher, etc. It makes a lot bigger difference than just the bases they do steal, it makes a difference every time they get on base.
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