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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:11 pm
by shortsavage
Deuce wrote:
rotterdam_82 wrote:Nice rotation. I can think of plenty of teams that would like to be in their position, at least pitching wise anyway.

That's the problem. Sabean thinks that way too.
Only one team wins the World Series. That team is never just good enough.
The Giants are consistently second because they do just enough.
Spend the money, buy the talent and buy the World Series!
Let's not finish second and then talk about how many teams are behind us. Let them ALL be behind us.


I don't think you are understanding the big picture.

The Giants have advanced to the playoffs four times in the last nine years after only playing in the postseason once in the previous nine years.

Not only is Burnett getting five years and $55 million (compared to the three year $27 million contract the Giants gave Morris), but it was no secret that Burnett wanted to be reunited with pitching coach Brad Arnsberg. Burnett had his best season under the guidance of Arnsberg in Florida.

You cannot buy the World Series. And even though many fans believe their team can afford to dish out more money, in the end it's ownership who writes the paychecks. Giants' ownership wants to win as much as any fan does. They are going to allocate funds to the best of their abilities. Putting together a team is their job. They lose sleep over this stuff.

We have the luxury of buying tickets when we want, investing in the team as much or as little as we desire. Sure, Sabean has made mistakes, but fantasy baseball experience by no means gives a fan - no matter how deep their knowledge is - the credentials to run a team. Even Bill James is just a special assistant.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:54 pm
by Deuce
shortsavage wrote:
Deuce wrote:
rotterdam_82 wrote:Nice rotation. I can think of plenty of teams that would like to be in their position, at least pitching wise anyway.

That's the problem. Sabean thinks that way too.
Only one team wins the World Series. That team is never just good enough.
The Giants are consistently second because they do just enough.
Spend the money, buy the talent and buy the World Series!
Let's not finish second and then talk about how many teams are behind us. Let them ALL be behind us.


I don't think you are understanding the big picture.

The Giants have advanced to the playoffs four times in the last nine years after only playing in the postseason once in the previous nine years.

Not only is Burnett getting five years and $55 million (compared to the three year $27 million contract the Giants gave Morris), but it was no secret that Burnett wanted to be reunited with pitching coach Brad Arnsberg. Burnett had his best season under the guidance of Arnsberg in Florida.


Point 1. That is exactly what I said. The Giants have advanced to the playoffs with no realistic chance of winning it all (2002 fluke). They were just slightly better than their division and slightly outplayed the NL. When it came down the winning the series, they were spent.

Point 2. AJ Burnett is not the only quality starting pitcher that is available. Maybe we have to give something up to get somewhere.
In fact, Morris is a typical Giants acquisition. He was the best we could get without giving up anything. Same goes for Sweeney, Vizcaino and Finley (Alfonzo is addition by subtraction).

By the way, you sound more like a team administrator than a fan.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:06 pm
by baseball6791
TownDrunk wrote:I never said that I didn't like the Morris signing.

Delgado would have solved the need for a LH bat and would have dramatically upgraded the problem at 1B.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm a little uneasy about Niekro entering the season as a starter, considering he hit .206/.251/.335 against righthanders.


I think that's part of the reason they signed Sweeny, I think they'll probably end up platooning...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:42 pm
by TownDrunk
baseball6791 wrote:
TownDrunk wrote:I never said that I didn't like the Morris signing.

Delgado would have solved the need for a LH bat and would have dramatically upgraded the problem at 1B.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm a little uneasy about Niekro entering the season as a starter, considering he hit .206/.251/.335 against righthanders.


I think that's part of the reason they signed Sweeny, I think they'll probably end up platooning...


Yup, and that's why I'm not "overly excited" :-D

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:50 pm
by shortsavage
Deuce wrote:
shortsavage wrote:
Deuce wrote:
rotterdam_82 wrote:Nice rotation. I can think of plenty of teams that would like to be in their position, at least pitching wise anyway.

That's the problem. Sabean thinks that way too.
Only one team wins the World Series. That team is never just good enough.
The Giants are consistently second because they do just enough.
Spend the money, buy the talent and buy the World Series!
Let's not finish second and then talk about how many teams are behind us. Let them ALL be behind us.


I don't think you are understanding the big picture.

The Giants have advanced to the playoffs four times in the last nine years after only playing in the postseason once in the previous nine years.

Not only is Burnett getting five years and $55 million (compared to the three year $27 million contract the Giants gave Morris), but it was no secret that Burnett wanted to be reunited with pitching coach Brad Arnsberg. Burnett had his best season under the guidance of Arnsberg in Florida.


Point 1. That is exactly what I said. The Giants have advanced to the playoffs with no realistic chance of winning it all (2002 fluke). They were just slightly better than their division and slightly outplayed the NL. When it came down the winning the series, they were spent.

Point 2. AJ Burnett is not the only quality starting pitcher that is available. Maybe we have to give something up to get somewhere.
In fact, Morris is a typical Giants acquisition. He was the best we could get without giving up anything. Same goes for Sweeney, Vizcaino and Finley (Alfonzo is addition by subtraction).

By the way, you sound more like a team administrator than a fan.


I think you misread my sentence in your point one. You talked about how the Giants are consistently second. I assumed that you meant second in the division, just missing the playoffs. I went on to point out how they have had much more success making it to the playoffs over the last nine years than they did in the previous nine.

What to you propose to give up in order to get somewhere?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:14 am
by baseball6791
TownDrunk wrote:
baseball6791 wrote:
TownDrunk wrote:I never said that I didn't like the Morris signing.

Delgado would have solved the need for a LH bat and would have dramatically upgraded the problem at 1B.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm a little uneasy about Niekro entering the season as a starter, considering he hit .206/.251/.335 against righthanders.


I think that's part of the reason they signed Sweeny, I think they'll probably end up platooning...


Yup, and that's why I'm not "overly excited" :-D


Yeah, I'm not very excited either, I was just pointing out that Neikro probably won't see much time against righties. I agree with you that Delgado would've been great, but from what I heard it would've taken Cain or esteve + a lot more...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:32 pm
by Area51's
Thats not a bad rotation. As a dodger fan, I can't tell you how much I'll miss K. Rueter as a big part of the Giants starters.

I was a HUGE fan of that guy. Dang

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:41 pm
by Ender
shortsavage wrote:Morris was one of the best starting pitchers available this offseason. The Giants got him.



If by one of the best you mean right around league average pitcher who is on a strict pitch count because of injury concerns who doesn't go deep enough into games to get 15+ wins... I agree with you. But his K rate is down and his control hasn't really improved so I would not expect another sub 4 era out of him, he's moving to more of a pitchers park but the giants defense doesn't come close to STL's so I expect that to be a wash.

I like the giants pitching overall as well actually, Morris slides in as a decent #3 starter, but if bonds gets hurt that offense is just terrible.