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Sources: Bonds may be subject of perjury probe

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Postby wrveres » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:38 am

Lofunzo wrote:Still doesn't matter. They could have found a syringe in his locker with his DNA on it and that wouldn't pertain to this thread. This thread is about Bonds and whether he lied to the grand jury. Whether McGwire and Canseco played hide the salami doesn't matter here. This is about whehter Bonds lied on the stand and what McGwire did doesn't affect that 1 bit


Lo, I am sorry that people choose to go thru life with blinders on ..

I do have a couple of questions for you though, since you are so content on cleaning up baseball ONE player at a time.

A) Why have over 75% of the players busted by the new MLB Performance Enchaning tests rules been pitchers?

B) Why are they allowed to continue playing, but Bonds must go?

If responding here is a problem for you ...
I can start a new thread.

Also can you point me to the "Mark Outrage" thread, I must have missed it.
thanks in adavance
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Postby Mookie4ever » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:05 am

Whenever a Bonds thread is started people are always so happy to get worked up over the same issue and have the exact same exhanges that they have had a dozen times before on this board.

I have read the same posters have the same ("it wasn't against MLB rules" "it was against US law" "so is marijuana use and speeding" "that's not an excuse - he cheated and broke the law" "so did a lot of other MLB players" "that's not an excuse, this record is sacred" "treat Barry the same as everybody else - nothing has been proven" "you are deluding yourself if you don't believe that he roided" "even if he roided treat him the same as other who have roided" "nobody else is about to break the HR record" blah blah blah) arguments so many times that I could recite them in my sleep.

The only new thing is that there is now perjury allegation.

Perjury is the deliberate and knowing lying under oath for the purpose of misleading. It is a criminal charge so it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of Bonds' peers.

C'mon. Give me a break. Unless they have him on tape saying "I know that I knowing took steroids" at a time prior to him giving evidence - or get a confession, this is next to impossible to convict on. This happened a long long time ago.

It is very difficult to get a conviction on this without this type of evidence and if they fail there is the Wrongful Prosecution/Abuse of Process claim for Barry. Which is just what he needs in order to get a little proactive.

This story is useful to sell newspapers and keep journalists employed but I can't believe that there is much to it IMO. Maybe I'm missing something but I think that this came up at just the right time to keep the Barry stories going and keep stoking the flames and selling papers.
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Postby knapplc » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:40 am

Mookie4ever wrote:Whenever a Bonds thread is started people are always so happy to get worked up over the same issue and have the exact same exhanges that they have had a dozen times before on this board.

I have read the same posters have the same ("it wasn't against MLB rules" "it was against US law" "so is marijuana use and speeding" "that's not an excuse - he cheated and broke the law" "so did a lot of other MLB players" "that's not an excuse, this record is sacred" "treat Barry the same as everybody else - nothing has been proven" "you are deluding yourself if you don't believe that he roided" "even if he roided treat him the same as other who have roided" "nobody else is about to break the HR record" blah blah blah) arguments so many times that I could recite them in my sleep.

The only new thing is that there is now perjury allegation.

Perjury is the deliberate and knowing lying under oath for the purpose of misleading. It is a criminal charge so it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of Bonds' peers.

C'mon. Give me a break. Unless they have him on tape saying "I know that I knowing took steroids" at a time prior to him giving evidence - or get a confession, this is next to impossible to convict on. This happened a long long time ago.

It is very difficult to get a conviction on this without this type of evidence and if they fail there is the Wrongful Prosecution/Abuse of Process claim for Barry. Which is just what he needs in order to get a little proactive.

This story is useful to sell newspapers and keep journalists employed but I can't believe that there is much to it IMO. Maybe I'm missing something but I think that this came up at just the right time to keep the Barry stories going and keep stoking the flames and selling papers.

This is all likely to be true - it may just be a drummed up story to sell papers - but then the question becomes:

Why would a Federal Grand Jury be looking at Bonds - with a likely indictment pending in June - if this is a story with no teeth?

A Grand Jury does not have to have a smoking gun to convict Bonds. All they need is a preponderance of evidence. What evidence they think they have will be interesting to hear.
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:04 am

wrveres wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Still doesn't matter. They could have found a syringe in his locker with his DNA on it and that wouldn't pertain to this thread. This thread is about Bonds and whether he lied to the grand jury. Whether McGwire and Canseco played hide the salami doesn't matter here. This is about whehter Bonds lied on the stand and what McGwire did doesn't affect that 1 bit


Lo, I am sorry that people choose to go thru life with blinders on ..

I do have a couple of questions for you though, since you are so content on cleaning up baseball ONE player at a time.

A) Why have over 75% of the players busted by the new MLB Performance Enchaning tests rules been pitchers?

B) Why are they allowed to continue playing, but Bonds must go?

If responding here is a problem for you ...
I can start a new thread.

Also can you point me to the "Mark Outrage" thread, I must have missed it.
thanks in adavance


You're missing the point big time. I guess that you borrowed my blinders. ;-7 I am saying that there is a time and a place to discuss the other players that apparently took steroids. Every time that Bonds' name comes up, you bring up McGwire. I'm not saying that McGwire was clean because he obviously wasn't. What I am saying is that whether McGwire was clean has no business being mentioned in a thread pertaining to Bonds perjuring himself. Maybe I'm the only 1 here but I am past the point of "who did what". To me, I am talking about perjury. Did he or didn't he?? That is the question.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:35 am

Lofunzo wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:I'm not saying Bonds did the right thing. I'm not defending his steroid use. I'm defending him from all the crap he gets for having done it. The very people he is chasing in the record books have been alleged cheaters. People still want to put an asterisk on his numbers though. They want him kicked out of baseball for doing something that countless numbers of Major Leaguers did.

That's why I have the 25 in my sig. I don't condone steroid use. I just don't see the big gripe everyone has with Bonds and Bonds alone. It's hypocricy. If you're going to cry foul over Barry Bonds, then have the stones to cry foul about guys like Mark McGwire, Gary Sheffield, Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, Jason Giambi, Jose Canseco and the countless other who have allegedly been involved with performance enhancing drugs. Better yet, have the stones to take it a step further and admit that our "heroes" of Mays, Aaron, Ruth, etc. may not have been as squeaky clean as we'd all like to think.


Most of the people that think the same way as you have written above defend him blindly. The criticism is always deflected to bring up the other players. Who cares about them?? This is about someone breaking the biggest records in sports. Whether every other player cheated or no one else did, it doesn't matter. Barry is either guilty or he isn't. What those other guys did doesn't matter. I don't like any cheaters. Is there any proof that Ruth cheated or are we just going by what has been written??


Is there any proof that [insert]Bonds[/insert] has cheated or are we just going by what has been written?


That's retarded and what this thread is all about. If he is cleared, fine. If not, I would like to hear the next song and dance. This thread is about Bonds potentially perjuring himself. Don't fall on the slippery slope.


My point is, can you prove that Bonds used steroids anymore than you can prove that Ruth used illegal bats? I understand you, yourself, are talking about Bonds perjuring himself, but many others in this thread aren't. They are targeting Bonds as a cheater and saying his records should be destroyed.

That's why I wrote what I wrote right there.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:38 am

Lofunzo wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
kentx12 wrote:
nuggets wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:This is the major problem that I have with most Bonds supporters. They always say "but what about Sheffield?? What about Palmeiro??" My response is "Who cares"?? If Bonds is found to have used steroids and if he is found to have lied to the grand jury, he should be punished. It would be nice if they hammered all of them but 1 or all of the guilty parties should be dealt with. I don't care if they deal with them 1 by 1 or all at once. The guilty parties should be dealt with accordingly, though.


What if Bonds only used when they weren't illegal in baseball?



The were illegal by US law.


So is marijuana. Should every player who smoked marijuana have their records destroyed and be kicked out of baseball?


And that is why an intelligent conversation can'tr be had with you on this topic. Rather than answering the question, you bring something to the equation that has no business being there.


You just aren't getting it.

I understand that steroids are illegal by U.S. law. I understand that Bonds could and should be persecuted because he used them. The point is, steroids were not illegal by MLB rules. So whether it can be proved if he used them or not, should not affect his baseball records.

Kentx12 seems to think that because steroids were illegal by U.S. law (though not by MLB rules) he should still be banned from baseball and his records thrown away. That's when I said, marijuana is also against U.S. law, but not MLB rules. Should anyone who smoked marijuana be thrown out of baseball and their records removed? The fact that steroids help you play baseball MEANS NOTHING because they weren't illegal in baseball. They were illegal according to U.S. Law and that's it.

Hopefully you all got that.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:40 am

Lofunzo wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Kentx12...

If you want Bonds in jail for breaking the law, fine. That has absolutely nothing to do with his baseball records though. He did nothing that should affect his baseball numbers. Steroids were not against baseball rules when he allegedly did them.

Were they against U.S. law? Yes. So the government is fully capable of going after him. They were not against MLB rules though, so whether he goes to jail or not means nothing to his baseball records.


Right. And drinking has to do with baseball records??


I haven't said anything about drinking in this entire thread. I've said things about Ruth using illegal bats, which is completely different.
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