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Let's talk Jason Bay!

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Postby pibb55 » Wed May 10, 2006 6:13 pm

JMoney wrote:So I traded away Dunn for Bay??? Good, Bad, or Ugly??


Very good. With your team you don't need Dunns Home Runs and you don't need his average killing you. You have two power hitting first basemen already in Thome and Howard, and now you have two top 15 OFers in Crawford and Bay. Is this an 8 team league or how many teams?
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Postby mweir145 » Wed May 10, 2006 6:46 pm

Geek wrote:
jh2031 wrote:
Iconoclastic wrote:See my signature. Bay was overrated going into this year and should have gone much later than he was taken. Lucky batting average last year and at his age last season might be his ceiling.


At his age....that was his ceiling? At 27 or 28? So, I guess that's it for Bay. He should just retire at 28 since he can't do better than last year. Thanks for the laugh. ;-D


Well, pitchers are actually paying attention to him when he's on base, and the SB's magically disappeared. You hasn't even attempted a SB for the better part of a month.

When you don't run, don't hit HR's, and fail miserably with men on base, you're not an elite outfielder. Period.

He's still worth owning, but he doesn't deserve to be considered in the Beltran/Sizemore/Wells class of outfielders. More like a Matt Holliday-type.

When did Wells become such a valuable player? For the better part of 2 seasons, he really did nothing better than a #2 OF fantasy-wise. Did 1 hot month suddenly change his value that much? We'll see how it goes the rest of the year..
As for Sizemore, I personally don't think the guy has enough power to be worth more than Bay. Sure he can steal 20, but so can Bay.

IMO, Bay is a much better hitter than both of them and his stat line will show it at the end of the season. There really is no reason to be getting worked up about him right now.
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Postby mweir145 » Wed May 10, 2006 6:48 pm

Geek wrote:Of course it's about people overpaying for him in drafts.

There are still people around who think he's a top-10 or top-15 outfielder.

Someone even suggested offering up Vernon Wells for him.

Of course people are going to kvetch when they use a 2nd round pick on a guy who turns out to be a 7th round talent.

Look at Vernon Wells' stats in 2004 and 2005, and try to tell me how he's worth more than Bay.
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Postby buminabox » Wed May 10, 2006 6:48 pm

Geek wrote:So there are two schools of thought:

1) He's an elite outfielder who's just off to a slow start; and

2) He's good, but not as good as people thought he was entering the season, and will never repeat his #'s from 2005.



No way hes elite IMO. Hes a pretty good OF, but far from elite.
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Postby Geek » Wed May 10, 2006 6:50 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Geek wrote:Of course it's about people overpaying for him in drafts.

There are still people around who think he's a top-10 or top-15 outfielder.

Someone even suggested offering up Vernon Wells for him.

Of course people are going to kvetch when they use a 2nd round pick on a guy who turns out to be a 7th round talent.

Look at Vernon Wells' stats in 2004 and 2005, and try to tell me how he's worth more than Bay.


I could refer you to his 2003 numbers.

But instead I'll refer you to his 2006 numbers.

Vernon Wells flat-out rakes when he has lineup protection. He has Glaus behind him now--a presence he hasn't enjoyed since Delgado was his teammate.
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Postby mweir145 » Wed May 10, 2006 6:50 pm

buminabox wrote:
Geek wrote:So there are two schools of thought:

1) He's an elite outfielder who's just off to a slow start; and

2) He's good, but not as good as people thought he was entering the season, and will never repeat his #'s from 2005.



No way hes elite IMO. Hes a pretty good OF, but far from elite.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Bay is good, but he's not 1st round good.
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Postby Geek » Wed May 10, 2006 6:52 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Geek wrote:
jh2031 wrote:
Iconoclastic wrote:See my signature. Bay was overrated going into this year and should have gone much later than he was taken. Lucky batting average last year and at his age last season might be his ceiling.


At his age....that was his ceiling? At 27 or 28? So, I guess that's it for Bay. He should just retire at 28 since he can't do better than last year. Thanks for the laugh. ;-D


Well, pitchers are actually paying attention to him when he's on base, and the SB's magically disappeared. You hasn't even attempted a SB for the better part of a month.

When you don't run, don't hit HR's, and fail miserably with men on base, you're not an elite outfielder. Period.

He's still worth owning, but he doesn't deserve to be considered in the Beltran/Sizemore/Wells class of outfielders. More like a Matt Holliday-type.

When did Wells become such a valuable player? For the better part of 2 seasons, he really did nothing better than a #2 OF fantasy-wise. Did 1 hot month suddenly change his value that much? We'll see how it goes the rest of the year..
As for Sizemore, I personally don't think the guy has enough power to be worth more than Bay. Sure he can steal 20, but so can Bay.

IMO, Bay is a much better hitter than both of them and his stat line will show it at the end of the season. There really is no reason to be getting worked up about him right now.


Wells has been viewed as underachieving the past two years. He's finally living up to expectations this year.
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Postby mweir145 » Wed May 10, 2006 6:55 pm

Geek wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Geek wrote:Of course it's about people overpaying for him in drafts.

There are still people around who think he's a top-10 or top-15 outfielder.

Someone even suggested offering up Vernon Wells for him.

Of course people are going to kvetch when they use a 2nd round pick on a guy who turns out to be a 7th round talent.

Look at Vernon Wells' stats in 2004 and 2005, and try to tell me how he's worth more than Bay.


I could refer you to his 2003 numbers.

But instead I'll refer you to his 2006 numbers.

Vernon Wells flat-out rakes when he has lineup protection. He has Glaus behind him now--a presence he hasn't enjoyed since Delgado was his teammate.

After struggling for 2 years, I certainly didn't predict that he'd come back with this much force, and there weren't many that did. Even with the Glaus factor, I didn't see him going higher than the 5th, and in my mind that was a reach for a guy who had a .783 OPS in 2005 and just pulled everything in sight for 2 seasons. He also simply doesn't steal many bases, dropping his value even out of the Beltrans' and the Sizemore's of the world.

Either way, I'd still take Bay's 2005 over Wells' 2003.
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Postby Geek » Wed May 10, 2006 6:56 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Geek wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Geek wrote:Of course it's about people overpaying for him in drafts.

There are still people around who think he's a top-10 or top-15 outfielder.

Someone even suggested offering up Vernon Wells for him.

Of course people are going to kvetch when they use a 2nd round pick on a guy who turns out to be a 7th round talent.

Look at Vernon Wells' stats in 2004 and 2005, and try to tell me how he's worth more than Bay.


I could refer you to his 2003 numbers.

But instead I'll refer you to his 2006 numbers.

Vernon Wells flat-out rakes when he has lineup protection. He has Glaus behind him now--a presence he hasn't enjoyed since Delgado was his teammate.

After struggling for 2 years, I certainly didn't predict that he'd come back with this much force, and there weren't many that did. Even with the Glaus factor, I didn't see him going higher than the 5th, and in my mind that was a reach for a guy who had a .783 OPS in 2005 and just pulled everything in sight for 2 seasons. He also simply doesn't steal many bases, dropping his value even out of the Beltrans' and the Sizemore's of the world.

Either way, I'd still take Bay's 2005 over Wells' 2003.


Well, I'll take Wells' 2006 over Bay's 2006.
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Postby mweir145 » Wed May 10, 2006 6:58 pm

Geek wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Geek wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Geek wrote:Of course it's about people overpaying for him in drafts.

There are still people around who think he's a top-10 or top-15 outfielder.

Someone even suggested offering up Vernon Wells for him.

Of course people are going to kvetch when they use a 2nd round pick on a guy who turns out to be a 7th round talent.

Look at Vernon Wells' stats in 2004 and 2005, and try to tell me how he's worth more than Bay.


I could refer you to his 2003 numbers.

But instead I'll refer you to his 2006 numbers.

Vernon Wells flat-out rakes when he has lineup protection. He has Glaus behind him now--a presence he hasn't enjoyed since Delgado was his teammate.

After struggling for 2 years, I certainly didn't predict that he'd come back with this much force, and there weren't many that did. Even with the Glaus factor, I didn't see him going higher than the 5th, and in my mind that was a reach for a guy who had a .783 OPS in 2005 and just pulled everything in sight for 2 seasons. He also simply doesn't steal many bases, dropping his value even out of the Beltrans' and the Sizemore's of the world.

Either way, I'd still take Bay's 2005 over Wells' 2003.


Well, I'll take Wells' 2006 over Bay's 2006.

I would to (so far), but what does that have to do with what I was talking about?
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