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The Reasons Papelbon will never go in the rotation in Boston

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Postby rmande09 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:25 pm

dc928 wrote:I think they will try him as a starter if that doesn't work then reliever. Boston needs another SP, he is better than John Lester so I think he'd will be try as a starter if he fails then he can go back to close. ;-D


He's not better than Lester as a starter. Papelbon has a great fastball as a reliever and a tremendous splitter. Outside of that, he has a mini-slider and a show-me curveball. As a starter, expect his pitches to drop 3+ MPH on average.

Lester has three Big League pitches - an above-average fastball, an excellent slider/cutter which has become his out-pitch, and a good curveball. He also features a show-me change. And he's a lefty.

But Lester projects to be an ace, Papelbon to be a #2, or #1a. I would take that.
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Re: The Reasons Papelbon will never go in the rotation in Bo

Postby rmande09 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:26 pm

The_Met_Threat wrote:
BTOWNHESS wrote:1. His numbers are just stupid, he reminds me of a guy named Eckersley.


Bahahahahaha.


I second that. Comparing a HOF'er to a guy who has closed for three months is ludicrous.
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Postby Kurtangletn » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:50 pm

Sox fan, and if they are able to get a closer in the off season or Craig Hansen is able to produce at the major league level, he would go back into the rotation IMO.

A starter and potential ace is more important that a 1 inning guy imo.
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Re: The Reasons Papelbon will never go in the rotation in Bo

Postby thursday_13 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:47 pm

[quote="rmande09"][quote="The_Met_Threat"][quote="BTOWNHESS"]
1. His numbers are just stupid, he reminds me of a guy named Eckersley.
[/quote]

Bahahahahaha.[/quote]

I second that. Comparing a HOF'er to a guy who has closed for three months is ludicrous.[/quote]


Actually, comparing Papelbon and Eckersley is odd, not because Papelbon hasn't been as good, but because they are coming from radically different situations. Papelbon is really starting his career as a closer and will eventually become a starter. Where Eckersley was a very good starter but went through several years of mediocrity and then found new life as a closer.

Also, Eckersley wasn't as great as a closer statistically as a lot of people remember him being. Check his numbers alongside someone like Armando Benetiz, it's actually quite shocking. Eckersley has a couple real clear years of greatness, but not the way some people tend to remember.

Anyways, the point is that comparing Papelbon as a closer to Eckersley as a closer is hardly laughable. In fact, Papelbon has proven himself a very good closer, and should finish out the year in fine fashion. In fact, Papelbon is on pace to finish with a better year than Eckersley's best in '90. Granted, he needs to finish what he's started, but it's not wrong to say that he is on pace for one of the greatest single season closing performances ever. And that puts him in the same breath with a lot of guys that some out there wouldn't dare mention.

Besides, Comparing a young guy to a hall of famer can be a compliment to the HOFer, if the young guy turns out to be better than the guy he was compared to. (and little papi does have a lot of potential to do so)
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Postby Red Sox Nation » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:22 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:
Red Sox Nation wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
zevon wrote:Hansen hasn't done much in his brief call up to show that he's anywhere near ready to take the closer job

And when did Papelbon show he was ready? He had 2 starts last year. They basically pushed him into the role this year, before he proved either way.


The problem is the Sox need Papelbon in the starting rotation. Wells is old and he sucks and Clement hasn't been his 2005 pre-All Star break-self and the Sox really need a 5th starter (for next year not this year). Hansen won't close this year. I think I've said this a lot but Papelbon will close this year unless he messes up somewhere and someone will need to spot-close for him.

It didn't matter because he went to 2005 Spring Training starting games (correct me if I'm wrong) and he didn't get a role in the starting rotation and once Foulke couldn't close he took over and ever since he's done great. He can do both- start and close and it doesn't really matter what he does. Except that he's gonna close this year cuz he's doing awesome but next year it's another story.

1. Remember Papelbon was called up last year for a spot start for some guy, don't remember who but yeah.
2. Papelbon "won" the closer role from Foulke because Foulke was rusty and because of Foulke's injury last year.

Foulke lost the job, and then Papelbon was given it. You didn't answer my question. What did Papelbon prove before being put into the closers job? Nothing. He made 2 spot starts last year. Why does Hansen now have to prove he's worthy before he gets the job? Papelbon didn't and has done pretty damn well.


dc928 wrote:I think they will try him as a starter if that doesn't work then reliever. Boston needs another SP, he is better than John Lester so I think he'd will be try as a starter if he fails then he can go back to close. ;-D


Jon Lester isn't bad and a lefty is fairly useful in a starting rotation. I expect Papelbon and Lester to move into the rotation along with Schilling and Beckett next year while Hansen closes (that is if he can because he really needs to work on that).

I will say this again. Yes, Hansen needs a LOT of work on closing especially if he can barely get a no-hit inning and an inning without letting a run score.


EDIT: Do NOT compare Papelbon to a HOFer.
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Re: The Reasons Papelbon will never go in the rotation in Bo

Postby blankman » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:45 pm

rmande09 wrote:
The_Met_Threat wrote:
BTOWNHESS wrote:1. His numbers are just stupid, he reminds me of a guy named Eckersley.


Bahahahahaha.


I second that. Comparing a HOF'er to a guy who has closed for three months is ludicrous.


That's for sure :-P

He's been great, but comparisons already are simply ridiculous. Huston Street was great last year and he's had a bunch of problems this year. Point is, you can't tell what he's going to do yet.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:24 pm

Red Sox Nation wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
Red Sox Nation wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
zevon wrote:Hansen hasn't done much in his brief call up to show that he's anywhere near ready to take the closer job

And when did Papelbon show he was ready? He had 2 starts last year. They basically pushed him into the role this year, before he proved either way.


The problem is the Sox need Papelbon in the starting rotation. Wells is old and he sucks and Clement hasn't been his 2005 pre-All Star break-self and the Sox really need a 5th starter (for next year not this year). Hansen won't close this year. I think I've said this a lot but Papelbon will close this year unless he messes up somewhere and someone will need to spot-close for him.

It didn't matter because he went to 2005 Spring Training starting games (correct me if I'm wrong) and he didn't get a role in the starting rotation and once Foulke couldn't close he took over and ever since he's done great. He can do both- start and close and it doesn't really matter what he does. Except that he's gonna close this year cuz he's doing awesome but next year it's another story.

1. Remember Papelbon was called up last year for a spot start for some guy, don't remember who but yeah.
2. Papelbon "won" the closer role from Foulke because Foulke was rusty and because of Foulke's injury last year.

Foulke lost the job, and then Papelbon was given it. You didn't answer my question. What did Papelbon prove before being put into the closers job? Nothing. He made 2 spot starts last year. Why does Hansen now have to prove he's worthy before he gets the job? Papelbon didn't and has done pretty damn well.


dc928 wrote:I think they will try him as a starter if that doesn't work then reliever. Boston needs another SP, he is better than John Lester so I think he'd will be try as a starter if he fails then he can go back to close. ;-D


Jon Lester isn't bad and a lefty is fairly useful in a starting rotation. I expect Papelbon and Lester to move into the rotation along with Schilling and Beckett next year while Hansen closes (that is if he can because he really needs to work on that).

I will say this again. Yes, Hansen needs a LOT of work on closing especially if he can barely get a no-hit inning and an inning without letting a run score.


EDIT: Do NOT compare Papelbon to a HOFer.

Ok, but you're still avoiding my question. WHY does Hansen have to prove that, if Papelbon didn't?
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Postby zevon » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:09 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
Red Sox Nation wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
zevon wrote:Hansen hasn't done much in his brief call up to show that he's anywhere near ready to take the closer job

And when did Papelbon show he was ready? He had 2 starts last year. They basically pushed him into the role this year, before he proved either way.


1. Remember Papelbon was called up last year for a spot start for some guy, don't remember who but yeah.
2. Papelbon "won" the closer role from Foulke because Foulke was rusty and because of Foulke's injury last year.

Foulke lost the job, and then Papelbon was given it. You didn't answer my question. What did Papelbon prove before being put into the closers job? Nothing. He made 2 spot starts last year. Why does Hansen now have to prove he's worthy before he gets the job? Papelbon didn't and has done pretty damn well.


Papelbon didn't need to prove anything, Foulke was hurt, ineffective, and lost the job. Thus far this season Papelbon has been the best closer in baseball. Therein lies the difference - a rook replacing a rusty, hurt closer or a rook replacing the current #1 closer in baseball. Wasn't too long ago that we had bullpen by commitee and blew every other save opp - don't need to go there again. I'm not dissin Hansen as a top prospect, I just don't think he's ready right now. So far this season we're looking at something in Boston we may never have seen before - the best D in the game and a lights out closer.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'd consider trading Hansen , maybe in a package to Atllanta for Smoltz?
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