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Nomo for Cy Young!!!

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Postby PresHabib » Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:29 pm

DK wrote: when the CY voters look at his allstar blown save, that's gonna come back and bite him in the ass.


....no it wont. Thats absurd. Even if the basis for you saying this is that the all star blown save cost a team gave 7 of the world series, any Cy Young voter who votes against Gagne for that deserves to be robbed of all his voting rights.

I can't say Gagne is a lock over Smoltz, nor can I say that Smoltz is a lock over Gagne...if Smoltz does win, it will not be for the reasons that you've stated.

Ramble, EXCELLENT post! ;-D
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Postby Madison » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:36 pm

I think that if either one Smoltz/Gagne breaks Thigpen's record of 57 saves, that person will get the Cy Young.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:26 am

reiser wrote:hehe. no, I think it's something far more nefarious-the White Sox are actually good. the horror.


LMAO :-)
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Postby wrveres » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:28 am

ramble2 wrote:Look, I think it's a close call between Gagne and Smoltz. Right now though, I think Gagne has a slight lead over Smoltz. The zero blown saves is damn impressive, as is his K/IP ratio. If Gagne blows a couple before the season is over, or if Smoltz pulls away from Gagne in the saves category, then I can see Smoltz pulling ahead of Gagne in the CY race.


Mind if I add a Ditto here .. and I own Smoltz in almost every league...
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Postby PresHabib » Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:53 am

Madison wrote:I think that if either one Smoltz/Gagne breaks Thigpen's record of 57 saves, that person will get the Cy Young.


I agree..but even if they dont break Bobby's record I think one of them will get the Cy Young anyway. They are having the best year(s) for any pitcher in the national league PERIOD, maybe even in all of baseball.
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Postby ramble2 » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:25 pm

Gee, it's as if he's reading our posts. Did one of you write this? :-)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1603327
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Postby Madison » Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:04 pm

ramble2 wrote:Gee, it's as if he's reading our posts. Did one of you write this? :-)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1603327


That does look familiar. :-? I think he's an "opportunist"! Roflmao! :-D
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Postby Guest » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:30 pm

I don't think a reliever is as deserving of the cy young than a starter simply based on the fact that they don't pitch enough innings. You can make your point on how dominant gagne or smoltz has been, but a starter pitches 3 times the amount of innings a closer pitches. That to me seems like they make more of an impact on their team than any closer would. I'm sure if either gagne or smoltz were to pitch more innings, they wouldn't be nearly as dominant as they are now. The fact that they've pitched so little innings gives us an impression they are more dominant than they really are. Can you tell me that Gagne will still avg 15k's per 9 innings if he was a starter? Or that smoltz would have an era under 1? Of course not! The fact that they don't work as much allows them to have more rested arms to work with and therefore, allows them to pitch better. I'm not trying to take anything away from what gagne or smoltz has accomplished this season thus far, but personally I think the saves category is such an overstated stat. I'm sure if you made pedro or prior or hudson closers and made them ptich one inning every couple of days, they would make just as good closers. My point is, as far as the NL cy young goes, gagne and smoltz should definitely be considered for the award simply because they've both had terrific seasons thus far, but to make them the top runners for the award seems ridiculous. The other candidates Brown, Nomo, Schmidt, Prior should definitely be placed ahead of them in terms of cy young contention.

Tell me what you think. I want to hear some other opinions on this.
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Postby pkarr5000 » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:35 pm

eric gagne has made something out of the dodgers season this year. i think that is enough for him to win it
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Postby PresHabib » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:45 pm

I think you make some great points there. Gagne wouldnt average more than 15K per 9 nor would smoltz be under 1 with his ERA. Saves also MAY be an overrated category...not as much as wins/losses though (i know you didnt adress that in your post though, thats just my soap box) Cy Young does go to the guy who had the best year though, and you certainly cant argue with the guy whos gone 43/43 in save opps, over rated stat or not. Even thinking about it though...saves arent really that over rated. They are generated only in the most clutch situations, tight games in the very last inning. Day in day out, the guy has to come in with the game on the line and get it done or your team LOSES. Something has to be said for the guy who comes in that situation and gets the job done literally 100% of the time, specifically Gagne. MAYBE they can make a special award for the guy who is the best reliever..cloesr/setup what have you...then we could have, say in the american league, Loaiza winning it and we can still pay homage to guys like Brendan Donnelly and Keith Foulke who have had outstanding seasons. I don't see it happening but its worth considering.


Id like to make a counterpoint to what I said about coming in clutch with the game on the line, as a closer. I don't really agree with this necessarily, but ill say it anyway...awarding the cy young to a reliever is like giving the MVP to a guy who is primarily a pinch hitter, i.e. career sub Lenny Harris from the cubs. I dont agree, but im throwing it out anyway.
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