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Nomo for Cy Young!!!

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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:52 pm

I dont like closers for cy, and its usually only in years wheres there no clear cut sp that they win. I like Nomo as a sp, hes solid, although pitching in LA helps anyones era and ratio. I still like Brown for my vote. Gagne actually leads in win shares right now, Brown 2nd, you guys in 100 years wouldnt guess whos 3rd, hes easily the most underrated sp this year. Nomo is 4th, Ortiz 9th, Prior 11th.
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Postby PresHabib » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:02 am

HOOTIE wrote: you guys in 100 years wouldnt guess whos 3rd, hes easily the most underrated sp this year.


Loaiza? Or are you just talking National league...in that case..i dont know, billy wagner?
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Postby jdh » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:05 am

The other thing that we have to remember is that relief pitchers have their own award, the Rolaids award. Maybe if they want, they could change that award from a statistical award to one that's voted on because the best closer doesn't always win it. (Alfonseca won it one year, case in point). However, I think the Cy should be restricted to starting pitchers, just like I think the MVP should be restricted to position players and not pitchers, since they have their own award.
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Postby PresHabib » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:15 am

the Rolaids award? I've never heard of that...good for them though...they should call it something else though.

Why not a separate award for relievers though, if you dont think they deserve a shot at the Cy. there is a separate award for every other player in the game, so why not them? that just reinforces the idea that they are insignifcant and that is not the case. Imean, hitters have the MVP, fielders have gold gloves, pitchers (starters only according to you) have the Cy Young..so what about the best relief pitcher? Plus, pitchers can win the MVP in the post season, why not the regular season? I just don't think its fair to shaft relievers by eliminating them from contention from any and all awards.
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Postby jdh » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:20 am

Yeah, they've had the Rolaids relief award every year for awhile, it's called that because Rolaids sponsors it and it basically gives a point score for each save and win, and deducts points for each blown save and loss. (I don't know the exact formula). The reliever that scores highest in the NL and AL each wins the Rolaids award.
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Postby jdh » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:22 am

Here's a link that explains the Rolaids award and lists all past winners:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/awards/aw_reli.shtml
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Postby PresHabib » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:27 am

Hmm...didnt know that...

I don't like that though. It's unlike all the other awards in that its not given out because a player has earned the respect of his peers which other than a ring obviously is way up on their personal priority list. I don't really think that award is on the same plane as the others because it doesnt necessarily go to the best player, as the other awards like cy, rookie of the year, and mvp do. Thats like giving someone the MVP because he has the most hits or highest average (which obviously can happen but shouldnt be the be all end all way to decide) or give the cy young to the guy wiht the most wins. Relievers need to either be made eligible for the CY or have a new award for them.
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Postby jdh » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:30 am

That's why I suggest modifying or replacing the Rolaids award with an award that is voted on like MVP and Cy Young.

The other thing to remember is that the current voting process isn't that great either, because it's voted on by sports writers, many of whom pay no attention to anything other than W-L record for pitchers. That has resulted in questionable awards, like Clemens' 2001 Cy Young.
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Postby PresHabib » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:45 am

oh sweet, then, unbeknownst to me, we agree :*)

I do also agree that sports writer voting winds up in some shady awards. I really hope that Russ Ortiz gets no Cy Young consideration cuz, though hes been good, hes not top 10 caliber in my mind...put him on the Dodgers and hes 6-10 and way off the radar. he owes alot to the braves offense.

I hope they switch to a voting system like they did to the all star team this year, where players vote. There are too many casual fans who dont really know who has talent and who doesnt and who jsut read things (like WL records) and assume the guy with the most (or fewest) is the best. The casual fan total unfortunately outweighs the knowledgable fan base (like ourselves :-D ) and some of those fools have leaked into the sports writer community. I mean, who knows better than the guys who compete against them? There were what, 30 something 1st time all stars this year? Tha says something about how effective the player voting system is, because in years past there were always tons of snubs but this year that debate wasnt as huge. The players know what they're talking about and they need a say in things like this.

Plus, sportswriters are often very biased, not voting for guys who they personally dont like, and only writing about guys they do. Case in point A) Willis will win the ROY though Webb deserves it because the writers like Willis' charisma. Case in point B) Why the hell is Jim Rice not in the hall of fame? Cuz the writers dont like him. Something needs to change in how baseball decides to give out its hardware.
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Postby HOOTIE » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:08 am

PresHabib wrote:
HOOTIE wrote: you guys in 100 years wouldnt guess whos 3rd, hes easily the most underrated sp this year.


Loaiza? Or are you just talking National league...in that case..i dont know, billy wagner?


Talking nl only. Loaiza is 2nd in al. The guy 3rd in nl is Livan Hernandez. Been simply the best sp since the break.
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