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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:51 pm
by J.C.Fighter
rentz wrote:
joshyboy72 wrote:by the way...I'm guessing Carlos Lee won't be playing tonight because of this deal..?


he's expected to arrive at dfw airport at 6:30 and have a police escort to the stadium to start in left field.
thats the plan anyway


Wow.. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes 0-4 tonight :-/

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:05 pm
by ukjohn
Lee is the DH tonight and batting 4th

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:46 pm
by AdvRider
fbc_fan wrote:
RynMan wrote:P.S. Melvin just may be the most underrated GM in baseball


completely agree. ever since he took over GM duties, he's been quite savvy in cultivating his farm system and making deals that benefit his long term plans. i don't think that it will be too long before the brewers young nucleus gain enough experience to make a serious run at the NL central. perhaps it will happen next year, but most likely 08 is the year.


Yeah, the Brewers' 264 / 323 record from 2003 to the present under Melvin is really impressive. :-? :-?

C'mon, the Marlins have virtually the same record as the Brewers with a $15 million payroll vs. the Brewers' $56 million payroll. If the best Melvin can do it get the Brewers to .500 last year, only to regress this year ... I don't see how he's underrated. Overrated is more like it. O:-)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:01 am
by Madison
hookem2003 wrote:As a life-long Ranger fan - trust me - this is a really good deal for Texas.


Also as a life-long Ranger fan - trust me - they could have done much better than a 2 month "rental".

The only way this deal works is if the Rangers do in fact make the playoffs this year, AND we sign Lee for a couple of years.

Anything less, and the Rangers failed miserably as Mench has been highly sought after for the last year and a half and we could have landed at the very least a top notch pitching prospect for him who would have years with the Rangers instead of renting a bat for two months.

Shadow of the Sun* wrote:Madison, what do you think are the chances Lee stays in Arlington next year?


I'd say decent. Not going to say great, but I do think there's a decent chance. I just cannot imagine the Rangers giving away Mench and not at the very least try to keep Lee an additional year or two (more likely two to three years).

John Bonzo wrote:Texas had been trying to get rid of Mench for years.


What? Quite the opposite actually. People have been trying to get Mench for the last two years or so, and the Rangers have refused to trade him away since they didn't like what was offered for him. We have NOT been trying to trade Mench, teams have been coming to us. HUGE difference.

John Bonzo wrote:I'd say that Texas got a much better side of the deal.


Way too early to even think that as the only way the Rangers got the better side of the deal is if we make the playoffs this season AND sign Lee for an additional couple of years at a reasonable price. Until then, it's way too early to say this was a good deal for the Rangers.

On the other hand, it's a very nice deal for the Brewers.

slomo007 wrote:Notice that every Rangers fan in here loves this deal.


Speak for yourself as I've already said I don't "love" or even "like" this deal at the moment. I believe too many people see the big name with the big bat we landed and are happy instead of really looking at the big picture and the future of the team.

Havok1517 wrote: I'm curious who thinks Tex can resign Lee? I actually think they have a good chance to.


I do, but I just hope we don't offer too big of a contract in either length or money. I'd like to see a solid 2 or 3 year deal but I'm afraid we might wind up offering a 5 or 6 year deal. :-o

mweir145 wrote:Well if you could get a very good reliever, a prospect, a guy with potential, and an OF in Mench who is extremely similar to Lee (.020 difference in career OPS), for only Cruz and 2 months of Carlos...wouldn't you do it? Making this trade actually makes the Brewers a better team all around IMO.


Don't look now guys, but I'm going to agree with Weir here. :-D I wouldn't go so far as to call Cordero a "very good reliever", but he did save 86 games the last two seasons, so there are certainly worse options out there. I think the Brewers did real well with this trade.

hooken2003 wrote:FYI, Buck also said the Cruz will start TOMORROW. So Texas got two corner OF's for that package?


Thanks for the heads up! ;-D I'll have to try extra hard to make sure I see the game then. :-)

Guess I should have mentioned before that if in fact Cruz does turn out to be a solid player down the line, then that would make this trade pretty good for the Rangers too. I was thinking long term as in playoffs this year and resigning Lee for a few more years, but didn't really consider the impact of Cruz (if he does make an impact in a year or two).

bdtoronto wrote:But this thread though just makes me wonder why anybody would ever play in an NL- or AL-only fantasy league. The idea that a stud like C.Lee or Soriano could just drop off your roster overnight b/c of a trade seems ridiculous. I can't imagine any reason for a league like that. It's not like they're even distinct leagues, they play each other all the time in inter-league now. If you want to play in a 'deep' league with limited quality on the waiver wire, just play in like a 19- or 20-team league, and you will accomplish that better, while still having all the players from the major leagues available to choose from.


I agree with this, but don't forget the flipside. Anyone in an AL only league that's saved his #1 waiver priority will be landing a big bat for the playoff run.

That said, I don't prefer AL or NL only either. I'd rather play a 16+ team mixed league than either league only.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:02 pm
by John Bonzo
Madison, haha, maybe I've just been hoping they would get rid of Mench for years.

I fail to see how any of these three guys are really all that much to give up. All three guys are disappointments in my mind, and are getting up there in years. Cordero had 1 or 2 really good seasons, then regressed the last 2. Would you really pick up the $5 million option on him next year? Mench had a couple 25 HR seasons, but he also is regressing and is in his 30's. Nix has never done anything ever outside of showing decent power while striking out in 1/3 of his at bats for two half seasons (the guy has more K's than hits).

I admit that my dislike for and complete lack of confidence in Mench may blind my eyes from considering the possibility for him living up to his potential, but the guy is getting really close to 30 and more and more average (if even that) every year.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:03 pm
by rentz
i liked mench, but he never lived up to his hype...buck showalter obviously never had much faith in him, and he has appeared to be in the doghouse for a while. last year the rangers shopped mench but didnt get a stud pitcher in return so they didnt move him, this year they shopped him even harder because he's heading to arbitration and was looking at 5-6mil. coco had a 5mil option coming up....so thats 10mil they just free'd up.
nix never did much, in my opinion because he was rushed to the majors, nothing that can be done about that now

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:24 am
by Madison
John Bonzo wrote:Madison, haha, maybe I've just been hoping they would get rid of Mench for years.


Could be. :-D

John Bonzo wrote:I fail to see how any of these three guys are really all that much to give up. All three guys are disappointments in my mind, and are getting up there in years. Cordero had 1 or 2 really good seasons, then regressed the last 2. Would you really pick up the $5 million option on him next year? Mench had a couple 25 HR seasons, but he also is regressing and is in his 30's. Nix has never done anything ever outside of showing decent power while striking out in 1/3 of his at bats for two half seasons (the guy has more K's than hits).

I admit that my dislike for and complete lack of confidence in Mench may blind my eyes from considering the possibility for him living up to his potential, but the guy is getting really close to 30 and more and more average (if even that) every year.


No, I would not pick up Cordero's option at that price. I would try to resign him though, as Otsuka did real well his first year with the Padres and then got blown up his second year. Having Cordero in case the league catches up to Otsuka isn't a very bad idea.

Not sure I'd say Mench is "regressing". He's just never had a stable job. Yes, he got 557 at bats last season, but he never knew from day to day if he was going to be playing or not, or even where (left, right, DH). This year was unbelieveable. He was still hitting over .290 when he lost his job! 8-o How is any player supposed to live up to his potential, or put up solid numbers, when they never get the opportunity? Sure, if Buck wasn't going to allow him to play, then trade away. Shame he didn't get the opportunity here though, but hopefully he will get it in the future. Saw he hit cleanup for the Brew Crew tonight, so maybe he will get his opportunity.

Basically the same goes for Nix. Never really got a shot. Wasn't a big fan of his or anything, and didn't mind losing him, just the entire package for the two month rental of Lee didn't (and still doesn't) sit well with me. I'm hoping the prospect turns out well, the Rangers make the playoffs, and resign Lee for a couple of years though. Then I'll feel quite a bit better about this trade. I'm not exploding mad or overly happy about the trade, just going to sit back and see how it turns out. Unfortunately, there's a bit of work that needs to happen before I can say this was a good deal for the Rangers because as it stands at this exact moment, it was not a very good deal. Could change though, and I do hope it does. ;-D

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:40 am
by reiser
ARN wrote: Jenkins contract makes him unlikely to be traded. The OF situation in Milwaukee does remain crowded though. Jenkins, Brady Clark(who could has been mentioned in trade talks lately), Corey Hart, recently promoted Tony Gywnn Jr., and now Mench. I would assume that Nix will be staying in AAA for the time being.


and that leaves out Gabe Gross too. a lot of criticism on the Cruz side of this deal, but he is 25, so that should temper his prospect status a bit. and you can't fault Melvin for Turnbow and Davis turning to complete garbage this year, and Sheets having swimmers ear or whatever the hell's wrong with him.

still, I'll fault Melvin for not getting one of the DVD's for Carlos freakin' Lee. :)

oh, and Kudos to the Rangers GM on this; you have to think every contending team in the majors was calling Melvin.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:57 am
by Ender
Only a fool wouldn't pick up Cordero's option. After May 1st he's had a sub 3 era and a sub 1.2 whip. Basically putting up the same numbers he did over the previous 5 years. Even if he's not a closer $5M is the going rate for a solid setup man these days. Even if you don't want to actually keep Cordero he's a great trade chip at $5M.