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SP/RP DUAL AVAILABILITY IS KILLING MY LEAGUE. WHAT CAN I DO?

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Postby 1337_Dude » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:46 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:Don't you just hate it when one owner makes a bunch of good moves, and you can't figure out a way to change the league settings to give the rest of you a boost?

As much as I'd hate to say it, it looks like this guy hit it on the head. The guy seems to be playing by the rules the league set forth. Good job for him.
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Postby TEKTON » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:59 pm

Matthias hit it on the head! I resolved my points league this season by policing the league and locking anyone who has more that 4 middle relievers a day. Say what you want, but just b/c yahoo has a glitch, it doesnt mean that it should ruin a point league. I run a points league and i can tell you this season it is much closer in standings of the top 3 teams. The past 3 seasons, 1st place ran away with the league by an easy 200 point lead.

POLICE IT or change all pitcher slots to P's.
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Postby Matthias » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:13 pm

1337_Dude wrote:
drunkmonkey wrote:Don't you just hate it when one owner makes a bunch of good moves, and you can't figure out a way to change the league settings to give the rest of you a boost?

As much as I'd hate to say it, it looks like this guy hit it on the head. The guy seems to be playing by the rules the league set forth. Good job for him.


That's funny.

My reaction to reading this guy's comment was, "Great insight. I know just what I'd do with it." *FLUSH*
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Postby swyck » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:16 pm

KULCAT wrote:
Bloody Sox wrote:Um... how can a guy with 8 closers be winning in any category but saves? Most closers who are SP eligible usually aren't very good (Papelbon being the lone exception this year I think). How can he compete in wins and Ks, or even ERA and WHIP? Plus, this isn't any different than most setups... in a Yahoo standard 2 SP, 2 RP, 3 AP configuration, he'd still be able to use 7 closers. Sounds like sour grapes, especially using the time excuse.


In fantasy points you can pretty much punt any category as long as you get your points somewhere else. Were trying to keep the league balance and honestly the closers have taken to much relevance. Im looking for solutions "not enlightment"

The tenor of your post using large caps "KILLING MY LEAGUE. WHAT CAN I DO?" does make it sound like sour grapes rather then an opening for a discussion on the topic. Yes you can punt any category and it shouldn't matter, that's one of the good things about points leagues.

I'd use a spreadsheet to evaluate the pitching points, and see where they are getting their points from. Tweak the values here and there to increase SP value. You dont want to go so far in the other direction that they use SP with RP eligibility in the RP slots.

Sure good RP's do have an edge in points per inning, but the numbers of K's, W's, etc should still be lower. In my points league, the top SPs range from 2 - 3.4 (Liriano) point per inning. The top RP's are a bit over 4 points per inning with Wickman types at close to 3.

Do you count IP or OUTs? I dont see how having only closers can get someone that much of an edge to win pitching points.

IMO points leagues are a fun change from h2h and Roto but they need tweaking as people find an edge in the system. I think finding that edge is part of the fun, and nothing to get excited about. Just re-evaluate your system to try to reduce this edge for next year. B-)
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Re: SP/RP DUAL AVAILABILITY IS KILLING MY LEAGUE. WHAT CAN I DO?

Postby Zito is God » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:10 pm

Oh you've gotta be kidding me! The guy is playing by the same rules as the rest of your league and just because he made some smart moves you are now trying to "police it" to even it out for yourself. He's a good smart owner, you had the same chance to get those guys on your team and I doubt you'd have a problem using the if they were on your team. You can't go and change setting after a league is created just to level out the playing field because you're afraid you can't beat this guy. Most normal owners would quit on you if you flat out told them that you can't use this anymore although the league was never set up that way.

drunkmoney hit the nail on the head, the guy is doing nothing wrong, don't use your commish powers to desimate the league because you're sour grapes and can't win. Everyone had the same chance to get these guys, he was the smart one who did, you are flat out cheating by changing any settings on him now.

He also has the most free time on his hands so he always grabs everyone and doesnt make any trade for the rest of his closers in his bench.


So because he is active and beating you you feel you need to cheat and punish him for it? The fact that you even wrote that as a complaint makes me wonder how serious of a league this is or how good of a commish you are.

Bottom line, leave settings as they are, owners quit when you change settings because it is cheating. Once you drafted thats it, you can't go and change points then. Instead of spending time trying to force the guy to make his team worse while he is doing nothing wrong spend that time making your team better.
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Re: SP/RP DUAL AVAILABILITY IS KILLING MY LEAGUE. WHAT CAN I DO?

Postby Matthias » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:16 pm

Zito is God wrote:Oh you've gotta be kidding me! The guy is playing by the same rules as the rest of your league and just because he made some smart moves you are now trying to "police it" to even it out for yourself. He's a good smart owner, you had the same chance to get those guys on your team and I doubt you'd have a problem using the if they were on your team. You can't go and change setting after a league is created just to level out the playing field because you're afraid you can't beat this guy. Most normal owners would quit on you if you flat out told them that you can't use this anymore although the league was never set up that way.

....

Bottom line, leave settings as they are, owners quit when you change settings because it is cheating. Once you drafted thats it, you can't go and change points then. Instead of spending time trying to force the guy to make his team worse while he is doing nothing wrong spend that time making your team better.


Chill out, ZiG. This guy is talking about next year.

Next year were adding 2 more teams(were 10) and im just biting my nails at the thought and teams having no closer whatsoever. Is there anyway to go around this? any option yahoo gives you sp closers cant use that SP thing?


And, I would imagine, you wouldn't say that there's anything wrong with setting rules before the draft to create the kind of league that you want. Personally, I don't think that taking the relievers who also are SPs is any great insight or calculation, but if you want to call it someone being smarter than everyone else, whatever. But it's completely fine to sew up loopholes before next season. If the SP/RP guy doesn't want to play, he doesn't have to.
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Postby great gretzky » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:39 pm

this is the one thing I like about points, and simulataneously, the reason I don't play it.

It is a legit strategy. ITs not like you have to have basestealers in that format--which is why I like it. A real life team can weigh its strengths versus weaknesses and simply decide to focus on average starters, great offense, good bullpen. Or it can play small ball or whatever. I think points makes that semi realistic in some senses.

The problem is a lot of people don't think that way in fatnasy. I played in a league that I think weighted saves a little too highly, and I did the same thing once I realized it. I traded basically all of my starters, I think I kept my "b" ace, and then moved everyone else with trade value for hitters. I didn't go TOO closer heavy, but picked up all the good middle relievers I could, with a focus on the dual eligibility. It worked out well.

But, at the same time, I think the artifical constraints of roto make for a more compelling game. If you can manipulate the scoring first in points, people don't have a shot.

I think you really need to pick say the top ten players at each category and actually do the math. At least it will show the relative values of each position, and how you should value everyone.

I think one common mistake is the ten points for a win, 5 for a save. A 40 save season in my opinion shouldn't be worth a 20 win season, and it really devalues the 15 win type of pitcher. Or you can devalue a loss and increase a blown save. A blown save is generally more the pitchers fault than a full blown loss can be.
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Postby KoopaTroopa211 » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:03 pm

Adding a point penalty for blown saves is a great way to tone down the value of relievers.
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Postby dannahann » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:18 pm

Every set of rules and scoring systems offer advantageous routes for those who'll work to find them. He's simply using what your current rules offer. That he's dominating for the 2ND yr straight WITH THE SAME STRATEGY says something about how "hard" the rest of you "worked".
That said, I've found the simplest way to combat this in points leagues is to make all the slots "P" and offer nominal points for "OUTS RECORDED" while simultaneously subtracting about twice the points for a blown save as are awarded for a save.
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Postby swyck » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:37 pm

dannahann wrote:Every set of rules and scoring systems offer advantageous routes for those who'll work to find them. He's simply using what your current rules offer. That he's dominating for the 2ND yr straight WITH THE SAME STRATEGY says something about how "hard" the rest of you "worked".
That said, I've found the simplest way to combat this in points leagues is to make all the slots "P" and offer nominal points for "OUTS RECORDED" while simultaneously subtracting about twice the points for a blown save as are awarded for a save.

But isnt that going too far the other way? There would be no point in having any relievers on your team. I know that would be fine for some, but I like giving relievers value, and actually requiring their use. Finding some balance is the key IMO.
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