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SP/RP DUAL AVAILABILITY IS KILLING MY LEAGUE. WHAT CAN I DO?

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Postby Matthias » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:54 pm

I still can't believe how many of you people are posting without answering this guy's question.

Yah. It's a "strategy". He gets it. He's looking for input on how to change the format of his league next year. No need to go off continue defending the guy who is using the, "strategy" of RP/SPs.

The point of fantasy baseball IMHO is not to exploit loopholes, much less to argue weirdly that they should be continued. But rather to mimic the actual value of players and construct a good team. And if he wants to eliminate an artificial glitch/loophole that is created by the nature of most default setups, more power to him.

I really think the best answer to the question is just to punt and have only "pitcher" as a designation. It's what I ended up doing in my main league this year for precisely the same reason. That way people wouldn't feel compelled to draft starters if relievers really were superior and no odd-ball starter-turned-middle reliever would have disproportionate value. Because at the end of the day, you don't want your league being decided by some intern at Yahoo Sports who tags Jonathan Papelbon as a starter at the beginning of the season and then leaves it throughout. Also, it doesn't put you into the role of cop, monitoring people's lineups and having people get mad if they made an, "Ooops! Mistake!" Much cleaner simply to change the setting and then let them do what they want.

Other ideas on lowering the value of relievers via blown saves, outs recorded, and what not, also have merit if you believe that relievers are overly valuable.

Best of luck.
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:14 pm

I really don't see this as being a problem. It's not like this is a new Yahoo glitch. I have always tried to use this tactic, especially in roto and points leagues. There aren't enough of these pl;ayers to go changing rules, IMHO.
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Postby bravo369 » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:51 pm

I know he's asking for advice but I think most people don't understand why. Everyone else has the same chance to draft these players so if he's winning the league using this strategy, maybe a guy like papelbon should be moved up on your draft list. And i should say also that it doesn't always work out. I picked up Sosa for his SP eligibility so that i can continue playing my other relievers. He got shelled and he i ended up losing points.

And to the original poster, if you really do want to police this, are you going to crack down also on someone playing Soriano at 2b even though he's primarily outfield now?

and how many closers really qualify as SP....papelbon and dempster. I don't think those 2 guys will make or break the league.
Last edited by bravo369 on Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby KoopaTroopa211 » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:19 am

bravo369 wrote:Everyone else has the same chance to draft these players so if he's winning the league using this strategy, maybe a guy like papelbon should be moved up on your draft list.


"Draft"? Most of the guys who have the SP/RP duality gain it through being converted to closer sometime during the season. They're hot waiver-wire pickups, not draftees
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Postby Matthias » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:36 am

bravo369 wrote:I know he's asking for advice but I think most people don't understand why. Everyone else has the same chance to draft these players so if he's winning the league using this strategy, maybe a guy like papelbon should be moved up on your draft list. And i should say also that it doesn't always work out. I picked up Sosa for his SP eligibility so that i can continue playing my other relievers. He got shelled and he i ended up losing points.

And do the original poster, if you really do want to police this, are you going to crack down also on someone playing Soriano at 2b even though he's primarily outfield now?

and how many closers really qualify as SP....papelbon and dempster. I don't think those 2 guys will make or break the league.



It's his league. If he wants to change the setup, then what does everyone else care? Just answer his question.

Also, the whole Soriano question is silly. If the second baseman went down tomorrow, Soriano could step in and play second. There is actually some sort of legitimacy to the idea that positional players could slide in and out of multiple positions. But Papelbon cannot step in and start tomorrow. Neither can Dempster. Different things. But again, it's HIS LEAGUE. You don't need to tell him how to run it.
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Postby ukrneal » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:15 am

Points are all about the math. I've stopped playing points for the most part, because they are very difficult to construct in a truly balanced way. There is usually some type of player who flourishes more under that particular system (which is also why some people like it). What isn't clear to me is why, after everyone saw what he was doing and that it worked, no one copied him? I feel like we are not seeing the whole picture.

That said here are ways to fix the situation (some repeated from earlier posts):
1) Change the lineup to all P (no SP or RP)
2) Change the points to relievers to reduce them (add blown saves for example)
3) Increase relative value of SP
4) Increase maximum innings pitched (allows more SP to be played, reducing relative value of RP)
5) Incrase # of bench spots (similar to #4 and may need to be done in parallel to #4)
6) Add holds as a category so that if they don't get a closer, they can get a reasonable amount of value through middle relievers

No matter how you do it, you really need to do some analysis using more than one year's stats, if possible. In any case, I highly doubt that there won't be some other imbalance or other, so whoever figures it out first is the one likely to win next year.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:52 am

Matthias wrote:
bravo369 wrote:I know he's asking for advice but I think most people don't understand why. Everyone else has the same chance to draft these players so if he's winning the league using this strategy, maybe a guy like papelbon should be moved up on your draft list. And i should say also that it doesn't always work out. I picked up Sosa for his SP eligibility so that i can continue playing my other relievers. He got shelled and he i ended up losing points.

And do the original poster, if you really do want to police this, are you going to crack down also on someone playing Soriano at 2b even though he's primarily outfield now?

and how many closers really qualify as SP....papelbon and dempster. I don't think those 2 guys will make or break the league.



It's his league. If he wants to change the setup, then what does everyone else care? Just answer his question.

Also, the whole Soriano question is silly. If the second baseman went down tomorrow, Soriano could step in and play second. There is actually some sort of legitimacy to the idea that positional players could slide in and out of multiple positions. But Papelbon cannot step in and start tomorrow. Neither can Dempster. Different things. But again, it's HIS LEAGUE. You don't need to tell him how to run it.


For that matter, you don't need to tell us how to respond in this thread.

Those of us saying that he is overreacting aren't ignoring the issue and not telling him ways to improve his league. I think that we are just telling him that it's really no big deal to us.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:05 am

If you want to stop the strategy you have 2 options IMO.

1. Change the value of closers. Make saves less, a minus for blown saves, or more points for IP.

2. Reduce the number of active P slots. If there are only say 5 active slots for pitchers then having 8 closer basically negates 3 of them.
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Postby Zito is God » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:06 am

Matthias wrote:
bravo369 wrote:I know he's asking for advice but I think most people don't understand why. Everyone else has the same chance to draft these players so if he's winning the league using this strategy, maybe a guy like papelbon should be moved up on your draft list. And i should say also that it doesn't always work out. I picked up Sosa for his SP eligibility so that i can continue playing my other relievers. He got shelled and he i ended up losing points.

And do the original poster, if you really do want to police this, are you going to crack down also on someone playing Soriano at 2b even though he's primarily outfield now?

and how many closers really qualify as SP....papelbon and dempster. I don't think those 2 guys will make or break the league.



It's his league. If he wants to change the setup, then what does everyone else care? Just answer his question.

Also, the whole Soriano question is silly. If the second baseman went down tomorrow, Soriano could step in and play second. There is actually some sort of legitimacy to the idea that positional players could slide in and out of multiple positions. But Papelbon cannot step in and start tomorrow. Neither can Dempster. Different things. But again, it's HIS LEAGUE. You don't need to tell him how to run it.


You finally caught yourself in a web of explanations Matthias.

Yes, Soriano can play 2nd if the 2nd baseman went down tommorow, but closers can start (Depster has before, so has papelbon, Wakefield is in and out of the rotation every week, etc...) if an ace pitcher went down and they were asked to step in. Didn't analyze that arguement too well I see?
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Postby Matthias » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:18 am

Zito is God wrote:
Matthias wrote:Also, the whole Soriano question is silly. If the second baseman went down tomorrow, Soriano could step in and play second. There is actually some sort of legitimacy to the idea that positional players could slide in and out of multiple positions. But Papelbon cannot step in and start tomorrow. Neither can Dempster. Different things. But again, it's HIS LEAGUE. You don't need to tell him how to run it.


You finally caught yourself in a web of explanations Matthias.

Yes, Soriano can play 2nd if the 2nd baseman went down tommorow, but closers can start (Depster has before, so has papelbon, Wakefield is in and out of the rotation every week, etc...) if an ace pitcher went down and they were asked to step in. Didn't analyze that arguement too well I see?


Ah. I'm honored that you've been watching so closely.

But no, Papelbon cannot come in and start tomorrow. Or can Dempster. They could start in a few weeks or more but they'd have to get stretched out in order to make the transition. And they certainly couldn't close one day, start the next, and then close the third. Switching pitching roles is just different from switching positionals (some sort of RJ World Series heroics aside).

Positional players, on the other hand, can play second one day, third the next, and outfield the day after. Look at Bill Hall, Ryan Freel, Chone Figgins, et. al. But I'm sure I'm just telling you things you already knew and you were just teasing me.

Because in any case, it's this guy's league and I know you wouldn't want someone telling you how to set up your league and you respect his right to set his up the way he wants his.
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