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In case we needed more proof that Wins are meaningless...

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Postby teddy ballgame » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:12 am

g-dawg wrote:The box score on Yahoo has him credited with a hold (or at least it did last time I checked), but he was not given one in the fantasy stats.

It's still there now, but everywhere I looked said an out is required for a hold, so obviously the box score is wrong.
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Postby Madison » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:09 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
Madison wrote:Holds are worse. Saw Armando Benitez came in, faced one batter, walked him, and got credited with a hold.

Just the latest of many examples of where holds are pretty silly.


If you want a wins example, how about Roger Clemens having started 8 games, has a 2.09 ERA and only 2 wins.


I still think holds are more meaningless on the scale though.

He didn't get a hold. You do have to record an out to get a hold, so whatever says he got one is wrong.


MLB.com had him credited with a hold after the game. Now it's been changed and doesn't show a hold credited anymore, but you would think the *official* site for Major League Baseball would score things correctly the first time. :-/

Still doesn't change the fact that holds are still probably one of the most worthless stats out there.
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Postby Tavish » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:19 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
g-dawg wrote:The box score on Yahoo has him credited with a hold (or at least it did last time I checked), but he was not given one in the fantasy stats.

It's still there now, but everywhere I looked said an out is required for a hold, so obviously the box score is wrong.


It depends on where the boxcore gets their information from. The STATS, Inc. version you need an out for a hold, the SportsTicker version you don't. Yahoo uses SportsTicker IIRC so it should be counted as a hold.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:29 am

Tavish wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
g-dawg wrote:The box score on Yahoo has him credited with a hold (or at least it did last time I checked), but he was not given one in the fantasy stats.

It's still there now, but everywhere I looked said an out is required for a hold, so obviously the box score is wrong.


It depends on where the boxcore gets their information from. The STATS, Inc. version you need an out for a hold, the SportsTicker version you don't. Yahoo uses SportsTicker IIRC so it should be counted as a hold.

What do you mean it should be counted as a hold? If you need to record an out to get one, then no it shouldn't. I don't really care what boxscore version they use, the stat still requires an out.
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Postby Tavish » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:39 am

teddy ballgame wrote:What do you mean it should be counted as a hold? If you need to record an out to get one, then no it shouldn't. I don't really care what boxscore version they use, the stat still requires an out.


There are two versions of the Hold stat. Its not an official MLB stat, but a creation of the stat providers. Yahoo uses the provider that uses the No Out version, so it should be counted as a Hold on Yahoo.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:57 am

Tavish wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:What do you mean it should be counted as a hold? If you need to record an out to get one, then no it shouldn't. I don't really care what boxscore version they use, the stat still requires an out.


There are two versions of the Hold stat. Its not an official MLB stat, but a creation of the stat providers. Yahoo uses the provider that uses the No Out version, so it should be counted as a Hold on Yahoo.

Oh, ok.
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Postby rainman23 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:13 pm

Back to the original topic...I agree that Wins are a joke. I happened to have four starters going yesterday, managed to snag two wins, and felt like I'd won the freakin' lottery. Good performances come up empty, and guys grab wins because they happen to be on the mound at the right time. Frequently after they've blown the win for some other poor sap. If you're one of those managers who rants all the time about removing any element of luck from your leagues, I hope you've pulled the plug on the W column...
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:38 am

Wins can be useful to show a pitcher's performance on a particular day though. Wins take out things like park effect, an ump's strike zone, etc. out of the game because it matches up a SP vs. another SP.
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