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Which line do you want....

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Postby 1337_Dude » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:47 pm

thomasps3 wrote:Imagine yourself sitting at your draft. You have your favorite beer, magazine, and you are sitting pretty in the six spot, nice and comfy and ready to make your first pick.
Off goes Pujols, Santana, Soriano, ARod, Guerrero.

Now here you are. Your palms are sweating.
You can feel last year's Tejada choice causing a furball in your throat.
Now who do you choose?
Manny or Bobby?

C'mon! Fess Up!

I don't think about taking either of those guys.
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Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:35 pm

In a hypothetical situation, I would take Player A just because across the board, he's more valuable than Player B, especially with the contributions in one of those "one-up" categories, runs and SB's. But I wouldn't take Abreu over Manny, when you consider a number of other factors in the equation and likewise, I'm skeptical of Abreu's power line too.
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Re: Which line do you want....

Postby TheYanks04 » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:43 pm

J35J wrote:Ok, I'm in the middle of my OF rankings/projections and I've come up with these two guys......

Player A
.300 20hr 115rbi 110runs 28sb

Player B
.311 38hr 115rbi 95runs 0sb


Without the names getting in the way which player would you want?... shouldn't be too difficult to guess the players, but anyway.

Player A is the guy I have in front but when the names get put in there its harder to do that. Anyway, I'll post the names shortly.

Jason



I would go with Manny. Again, this is a case where I think you are being conservstive with his numbers and probably slightly generous to fair with those of the guy you are comparing him to. Abreu is likely to have a fine season next year. In Yankee Stadium he should get 20+ Hrs on the season. I do not think that is unrealistic. And he will steal bases though probably a few less than his typical norms. Still Manny is Manny and his consistent 40+ Hr, 130+ rbi potential is just too much to pass up.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:06 am

J35J wrote:I'm right with ya guys.

Player A is Bobby Abreu hitting 3rd for that Yankees lineup

Player B is a 35 yr old Manny Ramirez coming off an injury season hitting behind Ortiz who takes RBIs away and never scores alot of runs or steals any bases.


Do you guys take Abreu before Manny?


Jason


I knew that it was Abreu before I saw you post the name.
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Postby Splendid61 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:33 am

J35J wrote:Player B is a 35 yr old Manny Ramirez coming off an injury season hitting behind Ortiz who takes RBIs away and never scores alot of runs or steals any bases.

What on earth?!?! Ortiz scored 119 runs in 2005 and 115 runs in 2006.

I think it's way too early to label Manny as a substantial injury risk for next year, he played 150+ games for 3 straight seasons (2003-05). If he's still experiencing knee problems in Spring Training 2007, then I would adjust his projections. But as of right now, he seems likely for 105 runs, 40 HR, 128 RBI.


J35J wrote:115 rbi hitting 3rd for the Yankees is almost on the low side

Generally speaking, 115 rbi from the 3-hitter in the Yankee lineup would be on the low side. But taking into account that Abreu is likely to only hit 16-20 HR and he's going to be among the league lead in walks, 105 rbi seems more likely.


.
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Postby BritSox » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:13 am

Splendid61 wrote:
J35J wrote:Player B is a 35 yr old Manny Ramirez coming off an injury season hitting behind Ortiz who takes RBIs away and never scores alot of runs or steals any bases.

What on earth?!?! Ortiz scored 119 runs in 2005 and 115 runs in 2006.

I think it's way too early to label Manny as a substantial injury risk for next year, he played 150+ games for 3 straight seasons (2003-05). If he's still experiencing knee problems in Spring Training 2007, then I would adjust his projections. But as of right now, he seems likely for 105 runs, 40 HR, 128 RBI.


J35J wrote:115 rbi hitting 3rd for the Yankees is almost on the low side

Generally speaking, 115 rbi from the 3-hitter in the Yankee lineup would be on the low side. But taking into account that Abreu is likely to only hit 16-20 HR and he's going to be among the league lead in walks, 105 rbi seems more likely.


.


OK, there's a syntactic ambiguity there. I think what was meant was:

Manny is coming off an injury
AND hitting behind Ortiz who takes away RBI chances
AND doesnt' score many runs or steal bases.

Not 'Ortiz doesn't score runs or steal bases.'
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Postby J35J » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:01 am

Splendid61 wrote:
J35J wrote:Player B is a 35 yr old Manny Ramirez coming off an injury season hitting behind Ortiz who takes RBIs away and never scores alot of runs or steals any bases.

What on earth?!?! Ortiz scored 119 runs in 2005 and 115 runs in 2006.

I think it's way too early to label Manny as a substantial injury risk for next year, he played 150+ games for 3 straight seasons (2003-05). If he's still experiencing knee problems in Spring Training 2007, then I would adjust his projections. But as of right now, he seems likely for 105 runs, 40 HR, 128 RBI.


J35J wrote:115 rbi hitting 3rd for the Yankees is almost on the low side

Generally speaking, 115 rbi from the 3-hitter in the Yankee lineup would be on the low side. But taking into account that Abreu is likely to only hit 16-20 HR and he's going to be among the league lead in walks, 105 rbi seems more likely.

.



Yeah Manny is who I was talking about not scoring alot of runs, but the last couple of years he has done ok at it but in the big picture he hasn't scored more than 95 runs in 4 of the last 7 years. Also when you can only count on 1 or 2 sb at the most thats not always good for a first rounder. Also in 3 of the last 7 years he hasn't gotten more than 450 AB's so there is small concern there considering he will be playing at 35 years old through the majority of the season.

With all that said, I'm not saying to not draft the guy, hell I may even draft him late first rd but the point was to just dig up some discussion during the usually slow off season. Just some discussion fellas, just some discussion.......

As for 105 rbi out of Abreu being more likely, well thats silly.... he's averaged 104 rbi the over the last 4 years and 102 rbi over his last 6 years.....now that he gets to hit 3rd for the best lineup in baseball his rbi total won't go up by at least 5-10?? I'd say its likely it will..... of course thats just my opninion.


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Postby GoatCurse03 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:45 pm

I'd take A, too. Thanks for the exercise. I would not have ranked Abreu ahead of Manny before this, but that's because I would not expect him to steal that many bases. Just the same, he'll get a lot more SBs than Manny.
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Postby whoseyourdaddy12 » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:08 pm

that was good. give us another one
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Re: Which line do you want....

Postby J35J » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:43 pm

This was fun....I'll have to do more of these next month.

I also had the Carlos Lee vs Manny Ramirez comparison thread going too...looks like Manny loses that one as well!



With that said, will Manny's name keep him ranked fairly high next year or do you think he will be good value next year?
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