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Best overall CF in the National League?

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Postby Yoda » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:55 am

The Big Stick wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
The Big Stick wrote:I love the cafe but, I sometimes wonder how guys and gals can have such short-term memory. This debate is not as most of you claim to be close. First I want to discuss Andrew Jones. 1996-2006 8 Gold Gloves. 5 All Star appearances. Carlos Beltran 1998-2006 3 All Star appearances NO GOLD GLOVE Per baseball-reference.com
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/beltrca01.shtml

Career: Batting Jones on the left Beltran on the right

AB 5836 ----- AB 4559
R 962 ----- R 826
H 1556 ----- 1280
2B 303 -----245
3B 32 ----- 55
HR 342 ----- 203
RBI 1023 ----- 763
SB 133 ----- 227
AVG 267 -----281

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... yerId=3520

I can also provide fielding number as well if you like. It's clear Jones has been better. Having said that, if I had to pick between Jones and Beltran, I have to go with Beltran because of the fact that his younger. The question proposed by BIGKEN was: "Best overall CF NL" I tend to look at sports in general from a longevity stand point. Who has done it longer and more consistent? Unless someone else can provide number to dispute that Jones has, my vote goes to Jones.


I'm not sure how those numbers prove Jones is better? He tops Beltran in most categories cause he has an extra 1277 AB.

And Beltran is exactly 1 day younger than Jones.


I have listed 8 offensive categories Jones has him in
R 962 ----- R 826
H 1556 ----- 1280
2B 303 -----245
HR 342 ----- 203
RBI 1023 ----- 763
Not to mention 8 Gold Gloves VS 0 let's not forget that part of the equation.
ED: make that 1 Gold Glove for Carlos


GG is a stupid award. Andruw's defense is much more publicized yet if you look at any defensive stats, Beltran is right there with him.

Countable stats are not fair since Andruw played in a lot more games than Beltran. I can see why people would prefer Andruw over Beltran but if I could pick one guy to play CF today, right now... it would be Beltran and it is not even close.
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Postby The Big Stick » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:59 am

Yoda, I agree as you would, I based on todays numbers have to pick Carlos but, the question was best NL CF. It was never specified today.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:01 pm

The Big Stick wrote:Yoda, I agree as you would, I based on todays numbers have to pick Carlos but, the question was best NL CF. It was never specified today.


Ummm if someone is asking who is the best NL CF, then I would assume that they are talking about today... What were you going by 3 years ago? 5 years ago?
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:41 pm

The Big Stick wrote:Yoda, I agree as you would, I based on todays numbers have to pick Carlos but, the question was best NL CF. It was never specified today.

If we are going on career numbers I'll take Edmonds. :-D

Career: Batting Jones on the left Edmonds on the right

AB 5836 ----- AB 5907
R 962 ----- R 1115
H 1556 ----- 1709
2B 303 -----380
3B 32 ----- 21
HR 342 ----- 350
RBI 1023 ----- 1068
SB 133 ----- 63
AVG 267 -----289
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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:45 pm

The Big Stick wrote:Yoda, I agree as you would, I based on todays numbers have to pick Carlos but, the question was best NL CF. It was never specified today.


In that case, I'll take Willie Mays!

Otherwise, I'll stick with Carlos Beltran.
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Postby quiksilver » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:08 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
The Big Stick wrote:I love the cafe but, I sometimes wonder how guys and gals can have such short-term memory. This debate is not as most of you claim to be close. First I want to discuss Andrew Jones. 1996-2006 8 Gold Gloves. 5 All Star appearances. Carlos Beltran 1998-2006 3 All Star appearances NO GOLD GLOVE Per baseball-reference.com
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/beltrca01.shtml

Career: Batting Jones on the left Beltran on the right

AB 5836 ----- AB 4559
R 962 ----- R 826
H 1556 ----- 1280
2B 303 -----245
3B 32 ----- 55
HR 342 ----- 203
RBI 1023 ----- 763
SB 133 ----- 227
AVG 267 -----281

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... yerId=3520

I can also provide fielding number as well if you like. It's clear Jones has been better. Having said that, if I had to pick between Jones and Beltran, I have to go with Beltran because of the fact that his younger. The question proposed by BIGKEN was: "Best overall CF NL" I tend to look at sports in general from a longevity stand point. Who has done it longer and more consistent? Unless someone else can provide number to dispute that Jones has, my vote goes to Jones.


I'm not sure how those numbers prove Jones is better? He tops Beltran in most categories cause he has an extra 1277 AB.

And Beltran is exactly 1 day younger than Jones.


Exactly...if you project Beltran's numbers for the same number of at-bats as A. Jones then Beltran's line is more like this:

R - 1057 (edge Beltran)
H - 1638 (edge Beltran)
2B - 313 (edge Beltran)
3B - 70 (edge Beltran)
HR - 260 (edge Jones)***
RBI - 976 (edge Jones)
SB - 290 (edge Beltran)***

***It's also important to point out that Beltran is utilizing power more than speed evidenced by his declining steals and improved homerun numbers. I think it's safe to say that in the next 1300 at-bats he'll hit more than 60 homeruns and steal less than 63 bases.
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