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Closers in H2H

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Postby BritSox » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:35 am

jfg wrote:How is starting closers at SP satisfying when you win? You're winning the categories on technicalities, and taking all the fun out of playing the game.


No different to starting Ortiz at first, or Glaus at SS, or Colston at TE.
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Postby jfg » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:39 pm

BritSox wrote:
jfg wrote:How is starting closers at SP satisfying when you win? You're winning the categories on technicalities, and taking all the fun out of playing the game.


No different to starting Ortiz at first, or Glaus at SS, or Colston at TE.


I think it's a lot different because at least with those guys you are aiming to collect the same stat categories....but I wish Yahoo had higher minimums as well. You get abberations like Glaus and Colston that can push an average team to a contender and devalues the position. I think relievers as starters does the same thing to another degree, not only does it devalue starting pitchers, it devalues a category at the same time.

My league's rule is that whatever role they have in the majors, that's where you get to play them.
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Postby ChipperJonesFanatic » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:32 pm

jfg wrote:
BritSox wrote:
jfg wrote:How is starting closers at SP satisfying when you win? You're winning the categories on technicalities, and taking all the fun out of playing the game.


No different to starting Ortiz at first, or Glaus at SS, or Colston at TE.


I think it's a lot different because at least with those guys you are aiming to collect the same stat categories....but I wish Yahoo had higher minimums as well. You get abberations like Glaus and Colston that can push an average team to a contender and devalues the position. I think relievers as starters does the same thing to another degree, not only does it devalue starting pitchers, it devalues a category at the same time.

My league's rule is that whatever role they have in the majors, that's where you get to play them.


That is your league's rule, not 85% of them. So you are saying that a guy like Figgins can only play 3B? What about the super utility guys (guys like Upton this year)

There is something called postition eligiblity.

Piniero was a starter last year. McClung started a few. They are both eligible there, and should be allowed to play there.
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Postby silverZ » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:52 pm

Trojan Pony wrote:It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game. Some people actually believe that. ;-D


"You play the game to win." -herm edwards :-b
Here's the pitch on the way, a swing and a belt! Left field! Way back! BLUE JAYS WIN!
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Postby orange12 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:15 pm

Havok1517 wrote:Just thought I'd share this. I actually am undefeated using this strategy (3 for 3). I likely need to lose 1 of my bench bats for another MR arm to plug in. This is my Yahoo Winners H2H league norm 5X5.

C A.J. Pierzynski (ChW - C)
1B Prince Fielder (Mil - 1B)
2B Ian Kinsler (Tex - 2B)
3B Aramis Ramírez (ChC - 3B)
SS Miguel Tejada (Bal - SS)
OF Carl Crawford (TB - OF)
OF Adam Dunn (Cin - OF)
OF Jeff Francoeur (Atl - OF)
Util Travis Hafner (Cle - Util)
BN Carlos Quentin (Ari - OF)
BN Aubrey Huff (Bal - 1B,3B,OF)
BN Wilson Betemit (LAD - 2B,3B,SS)

SP Joel Piñeiro (Bos - SP,RP)
SP Seth McClung (TB - SP,RP)
RP Bobby Jenks (CWS - RP)
RP Francisco Cordero (Mil - RP)
P Brian Fuentes (Col - RP)
P Kevin Gregg (Fla - SP,RP)
P Joel Zumaya (Det - RP)
BN Jonathan Broxton (LAD - RP)
BN Scot Shields (LAA - RP)

My Draft:

1. (9) Carl Crawford OF
2. (16) Travis Hafner Util
3. (33) Miguel Tejada SS
4. (40) Aramis Ramírez 3B
5. (57) Adam Dunn OF
6. (64) Bobby Jenks RP
7. (81) Francisco Cordero RP
8. (88) Brian Fuentes RP
9. (105) Prince Fielder 1B
10. (112) Joel Zumaya RP
11. (129) Jeff Francoeur OF
12. (136) Joel Piñeiro SP,RP
13. (153) Ian Kinsler 2B
14. (160) Jonathan Broxton RP
15. (177) Seth McClung SP,RP
16. (184) A.J. Pierzynski C
17. (201) Scot Shields RP
18. (208) Carlos Quentin OF
19. (225) Kevin Gregg SP,RP
20. (232) Aubrey Huff 3B,OF
21. (249) Wilson Betemit 2B,3B,SS

This strategy really works!


Havok, in your experience, how often do you have to add/drop pitchers in this strategy? Also, what are some of the most common causes for the times when this strategy fails? I ask because I just might have to try this thing out myself. ;-D
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Postby Havok1517 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:23 pm

orange12 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Just thought I'd share this. I actually am undefeated using this strategy (3 for 3). I likely need to lose 1 of my bench bats for another MR arm to plug in. This is my Yahoo Winners H2H league norm 5X5.

C A.J. Pierzynski (ChW - C)
1B Prince Fielder (Mil - 1B)
2B Ian Kinsler (Tex - 2B)
3B Aramis Ramírez (ChC - 3B)
SS Miguel Tejada (Bal - SS)
OF Carl Crawford (TB - OF)
OF Adam Dunn (Cin - OF)
OF Jeff Francoeur (Atl - OF)
Util Travis Hafner (Cle - Util)
BN Carlos Quentin (Ari - OF)
BN Aubrey Huff (Bal - 1B,3B,OF)
BN Wilson Betemit (LAD - 2B,3B,SS)

SP Joel Piñeiro (Bos - SP,RP)
SP Seth McClung (TB - SP,RP)
RP Bobby Jenks (CWS - RP)
RP Francisco Cordero (Mil - RP)
P Brian Fuentes (Col - RP)
P Kevin Gregg (Fla - SP,RP)
P Joel Zumaya (Det - RP)
BN Jonathan Broxton (LAD - RP)
BN Scot Shields (LAA - RP)

My Draft:

1. (9) Carl Crawford OF
2. (16) Travis Hafner Util
3. (33) Miguel Tejada SS
4. (40) Aramis Ramírez 3B
5. (57) Adam Dunn OF
6. (64) Bobby Jenks RP
7. (81) Francisco Cordero RP
8. (88) Brian Fuentes RP
9. (105) Prince Fielder 1B
10. (112) Joel Zumaya RP
11. (129) Jeff Francoeur OF
12. (136) Joel Piñeiro SP,RP
13. (153) Ian Kinsler 2B
14. (160) Jonathan Broxton RP
15. (177) Seth McClung SP,RP
16. (184) A.J. Pierzynski C
17. (201) Scot Shields RP
18. (208) Carlos Quentin OF
19. (225) Kevin Gregg SP,RP
20. (232) Aubrey Huff 3B,OF
21. (249) Wilson Betemit 2B,3B,SS

This strategy really works!


Havok, in your experience, how often do you have to add/drop pitchers in this strategy? Also, what are some of the most common causes for the times when this strategy fails? I ask because I just might have to try this thing out myself. ;-D


Well, last year I drafted guys like Liriano and a few others thhat started the year in the pen. I ended up trading Liriano after he moved to the rotation and dropped others that lost thier job (Turnbow) or got hurt (Pap). Also, filling every spot everday is important. Try and make sure you get at least 1 speedster in the draft (I got Crawford). I also got guys like Hollday who hadn't broken out yet in the 7th round last year after I took most of my best closers. I expect similar production from a guy (minus the avg) in Francouer. So, look for hidden values. I also sometimes would sit the staff on a Sun or Sat if I was sure I was going to win at least 3 categories. I suppose the volatility in the closer position is most common thing thats fails so you gotta be quick replacing guys.

Here was one of my winning yahoo league teams at the end of the season using this strategy...

Carl Crawford (TB - OF) 183/600 89 18 77 58 .305
Adam Dunn (Cin - 1B,OF) 131/561 99 40 92 7 .234
Marcus Giles (SD - 2B) 144/550 87 11 60 10 .262
Bill Hall (Mil - 2B,3B,SS) 145/537 101 35 85 8 .270
Ramón Hernández (Bal - C) 138/501 66 23 91 1 .275
Matt Holliday (Col - OF) 196/602 119 34 114 10 .326
Aubrey Huff (Bal - 1B,3B,OF) 121/454 57 21 66 0 .267
Wily Mo Peña (Bos - OF) 83/276 36 11 42 0 .301
Aramis Ramírez (ChC - 3B) 173/594 93 38 119 2 .291
Miguel Tejada (Bal - SS) 214/648 99 24 100 6 .330
Josh Willingham (Fla - C,OF) 139/502 62 26 74 2 .277

Chad Cordero (Was - RP) 73.1 7 29 69 3.19 1.10
Francisco Cordero (Mil - RP) 75.1 10 22 84 3.70 1.34
Ryan Dempster (ChC - SP,RP) 75.0 1 24 67 4.80 1.51
Brian Fuentes (Col - RP) 65.1 3 30 73 3.44 1.16
Mike González (Atl - RP) 54.0 3 24 64 2.17 1.35
Seth McClung (TB - SP,RP) 103.0 6 6 59 6.29 1.83
Cla Meredith (SD - RP) 50.2 5 0 37 1.07 0.71
Joe Nathan (Min - RP) 68.1 7 36 95 1.58 0.79
Takashi Saito (LAD - RP) 78.1 6 24 107 2.07 0.91
Scot Shields (LAA - RP) 87.2 7 2 84 2.87 1.07
Huston Street (Oak - RP) 70.2 4 37 67 3.31 1.09

IMO, the best way to combat this strategy is spot starting. Few managers are that committed to spot start 3-4 pitchers a day based on matchup. The idea of starting a teams's 2 best starters only is wishful thinking because closers are more successful than starters in one inning of work.
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Postby whoseyourdaddy12 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:16 pm

So, I tried Havok's strategy and heres how the draft went:

5x5 12 team reg yahoo private league

C: Lo Duca
1B: Konerko
2B: Kendrick
3B: Arod
SS: Rollins
OF: Vernon Wells, Alex Rios, Cuddyer
UTIL: Fielder

BN: Chad Tracy, Burrell

SP: Harden, Pineiro
RP: Nathan, Putz
P: Chris Ray, Chad Cordero, Zumaya

BN: Broxton, McClung, Gregg (sub in Gregg or McClung when Harden isn't starting)


Draft:

1(5) Arod
2(20) Rollins
3(29) Vernon Wells
4(44) Joe Nathan
5(53) Konerko
6(68) Putz
7(77) Chris Ray
8(92) Prince Fielder
9(101) Chad Cordero
10(116) Alex Rios
11(125) Howie Kendrick
12(140) Rich Harden
13(149) Burrell
14(164) Cuddyer
15(173) Zumaya
16(188) Chad Tracy
17(197) Broxton
18(212) Pineiro
19(221) McClung
20(236) Lo Duca
21(245) Kevin Gregg
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