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Dice-K for Cy Young?

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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby The Loveable Losers » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:21 pm

jnormy wrote:
jswede wrote:he's got wins over the likes of KC, TEX, SEA, 2 over NYY (when they STUNK - and he had 10 earned runs allowed)....


If by the "likes of" you mean top 10 offenses in runs scored this year, then you're right on the money. Texas is currently #3, the Yankees are #5, and Seattle is at #9. And even the Royals aren't scraping the bottom, at a respectable 18th, one ahead of my Mets (I'm embarrassed to say!). Now those are some "cold hard rankings" that you seem to have ignored.

Obviously Dice-K is WAY behind at this point in any Cy Young discussion, but the guy is having a good year. Overhyped? Of course. That doesn't mean he's not a very good pitcher. (I don't think he'd look too good in lipstick, though. :b )


I think he was only overhyped by the media to be honest. He's right in line with his 50th to 70th percentile rankings from PECOTA and PECOTA was fairly aggressive in their projections compared to some other places. He's doing about what people that actually follow baseball closely expected. He's not the greatest pitcher ever or anything like that but he's putting together a solid season against solid competition (as jnormy pointed out). Dice-K is the real deal and he's going to be a good to very good starting pitcher for awhile. How good is anybody's guess of course...that's why they play the games.
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby thedude » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:37 pm

The Loveable Losers wrote:
jnormy wrote:
jswede wrote:he's got wins over the likes of KC, TEX, SEA, 2 over NYY (when they STUNK - and he had 10 earned runs allowed)....


If by the "likes of" you mean top 10 offenses in runs scored this year, then you're right on the money. Texas is currently #3, the Yankees are #5, and Seattle is at #9. And even the Royals aren't scraping the bottom, at a respectable 18th, one ahead of my Mets (I'm embarrassed to say!). Now those are some "cold hard rankings" that you seem to have ignored.

Obviously Dice-K is WAY behind at this point in any Cy Young discussion, but the guy is having a good year. Overhyped? Of course. That doesn't mean he's not a very good pitcher. (I don't think he'd look too good in lipstick, though. :b )


I think he was only overhyped by the media to be honest. He's right in line with his 50th to 70th percentile rankings from PECOTA and PECOTA was fairly aggressive in their projections compared to some other places. He's doing about what people that actually follow baseball closely expected. He's not the greatest pitcher ever or anything like that but he's putting together a solid season against solid competition (as jnormy pointed out). Dice-K is the real deal and he's going to be a good to very good starting pitcher for awhile. How good is anybody's guess of course...that's why they play the games.


If you watched the games you would have seen that even in his bad starts he domianted for more innings than he struggled. Lately those lousy innings have been more infrequant.

Right now is he the best pitcher even on his own team? No. But he has a 3.80 era, with an adjusted league era of 4.47, which is nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby thedude » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:39 pm

BTW, if he keeps up this pace, he will win 19 games, strike out 230 and have a 3.80 ERA. That puts him in ROy contention.
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby J35J » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:56 pm

Dice is a very solid pitcher. I'm not even so sure he was overhyped....we'll have to see by the end of the season. Of course some people thought he would be Santana-esque and he would have been overhyped by those people but like LL said, most reasonable, knowledgle baseball fans had more realistic expectations that he IS living up to!

I had him down for...
220 IP
15 W
3.60 ERA
1.21 WHIP
180 SO

...I had him projected a little higher with my first projections but as the preseason went along I eventually dropped him down to the #'s above. Looks like he may very well do better than my projected #'s...he's exceding my expectations! He's also pitching lights out in June! He's good!
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby number9 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:51 am

What's incredible about him is that he's got so many useful pitches in his arsenal. So much so that on any given day him and Tek can choose which pitches to use to go get strikes, strikeout pitch, out pitch, etc. depending on how he's throwing those pitches that day. It's a rare day that none of his pitches work. I think Tek and Daisuke are starting to mesh rather well. Then again, we'll see with the second half of his season.
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby AcidRock23 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:16 pm

number9 wrote:What's incredible about him is that he's got so many useful pitches in his arsenal. So much so that on any given day him and Tek can choose which pitches to use to go get strikes, strikeout pitch, out pitch, etc. depending on how he's throwing those pitches that day. It's a rare day that none of his pitches work. I think Tek and Daisuke are starting to mesh rather well. Then again, we'll see with the second half of his season.


That's an interesting point but then what happens to Dice-K when Tek retires?

One related note is that I have DiceK on a team and he seems to pull about 80% of the trade offers I've received so far this year.
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby number9 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:05 pm

He may eventually start calling more of his own pitches instead of letting the cather do most of the pitch calling. Anyways, my main point was that he's got a lot of good useful pitches. Enough that he can decide to use only the ones that are good that day, and don't even bother with the ones that aren't working for him (every pitcher has days when certain pitches work and others don't, he just has more to choose from which should be advantageous and should make advance scouting by other teams less effective as well).
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby J35J » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:13 pm

Last 11 games: 76.2IP/2.58ERA/1.13WHIP/80Ks

Last 6 games: 42IP/1.29ERA/1.00WHIP/51Ks
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby IrishSox14 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:26 pm

J35J wrote:Last 11 games: 76.2IP/2.58ERA/1.13WHIP/80Ks

Last 6 games: 42IP/1.29ERA/1.00WHIP/51Ks


those are pretty good #s, i guess ;-D
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Re: Dice-K for Cy Young?

Postby Chrisy Moltisanti » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:57 pm

Numbers are down after a couple bad starts, but where do you see him in the race now? I got:

Beckett
Johan
Haren
Lackey
CC
Verlander
Bonderman
Dice
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