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Is the Boston Lineup as Dangerous as it Used to be?

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Is the Boston Lineup as Dangerous as it Used to be?

Postby Diggs » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:51 am

In the past, you would normally not start anything but an ace pitcher against the likes of the Yanks, the Redsox, and now even the Mets ;-D :-B . But I'm trying to think back to Boston teams of the past; what am I forgetting that made them so much more dangerous on paper then they seem to me now?

Of course you ALWAYS have to be fearful of Ortiz and Manny. Those two are just absolute monsters. But surrounding them now is J.Lugo, K.Youkilis, JD.Drew, M.Lowell, an aging and far less productive J.Varitek, etc.

Were those past lineups that much better or does it really just come down to those two beasts they have batting 3 and 4?
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:02 am

I was just thinking this as well.

Ortiz and Manny are great but they were several years younger, had Damon and Nomar, a younger Varitek, Trot Nixon supporting them as well. I'm not sure that Dice-K will make up for the slimmer offense.
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Postby Diggs » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:17 am

AcidRock23 wrote:I was just thinking this as well.

Ortiz and Manny are great but they were several years younger, had Damon and Nomar, a younger Varitek, Trot Nixon supporting them as well. I'm not sure that Dice-K will make up for the slimmer offense.

In terms of regular MLB, I think their offense is fine. Heck, better then fine. I don't really think Dice-K will have to "make up" for anything. I'm talking from a fantasy perspective only. You used to be timid about starting a #2 or #3 starter against the Sox because they could explode for 10, 11, 12, 13+ runs on any given day. Does anyone feel that this Boston lineup needs to be feared like this also? Or, are they just a good MLB lineup and no longer a "feared" MLB lineup?
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Postby DSheppard » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:34 am

i agree, its a well above average mlb lineup but its not a lineup you need to be scared to start an ace against.

i hate to say it, but the texas offense is significantly down too. of course youve still got to be wary of ameriquest a bit.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:43 am

Gil Meche was able to have his way with them pretty nicely... :-? ;-D
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Postby Cooner » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:19 am

a buddy of mine and I were chatting about this yesterday... he was hoping Coco Crisp got him some cheap steals at some point this season. I said, "forget about it, the Sox don't steal bases." We ended up agreeing that they might start, since they no longer have a back of the order like they used to. I mean, it used to be that Mark Bellhorn or Todd Walker were their #8/9, which is really pretty ridiculous. I definitely agree that their bottom half of the order has fallen off quite a bit...
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:22 am

AcidRock23 wrote:Gil Meche was able to have his way with them pretty nicely... :-? ;-D

That's because Gil Meche is a staff ace. ;-7 :-D
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Postby bigken117 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:28 am

I like their offense better this season than last. Drew and Lugo are huge upgrades over Nixon and Gonzalez. Though this could be offset by Tek and Lowell being a step slower. PECOTA sees good things for Pedroia (33 doubles). Youk should be much improved, and Crisp can't be much worse than last season. The thing is the front office wants an approach where they take the 1st pitch and try and run up pitch counts instead of going out there hacking.

I think they'll threaten 900 runs, and if you're in a league with an IP limit, I wouldn't put Gil Meche out there versus them every time out.
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Postby Diggs » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:36 am

bigken117 wrote:If you're in a league with an IP limit, I wouldn't put Gil Meche out there versus them every time out.

And that is what I was hoping to get across here using collected minds. Should we still "fear" Boston's lineup and more often then not refrain from starting one of our pitchers against them (especially in an IP capped league), or has their lineup loosened up to the point that starting a pitcher against them is no more risky then starting a pitcher vs. any other good MLB lineup. ;-)
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Postby thedude » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:25 am

Code: Select all
Pos Player              Ag   G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  BB  SO   BA    OBP   SLG  SB  CS  GDP HBP  SH  SF IBB  OPS+
---+-------------------+--+----+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+----+-----+-----+-----+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+----+
C  #Jason Varitek       33  133  470   70  132  30  1  22   70  62  117  .281  .366  .489   2   0  10   3   1   3   3  125
1B  Kevin Millar        33  134  449   57  122  28  1   9   50  54   74  .272  .355  .399   0   1  12   8   0   8   0  100
2B #Mark Bellhorn       30   85  283   41   61  20  0   7   28  49  109  .216  .328  .360   3   0   4   0   0   3   1   83
3B #Bill Mueller        34  150  519   69  153  34  3  10   62  59   74  .295  .369  .430   0   0  22   6   0   6   3  112
SS  Edgar Renteria      29  153  623  100  172  36  4   8   70  55  100  .276  .335  .385   9   4  15   3   6   5   0   91
LF  Manny Ramirez       33  152  554  112  162  30  1  45  144  80  119  .292  .388  .594   1   0  20  10   0   6   9  156
CF *Johnny Damon        31  148  624  117  197  35  6  10   75  53   69  .316  .366  .439  18   1   5   2   0   9   3  113
RF *Trot Nixon          31  124  408   64  112  29  1  13   67  53   59  .275  .357  .446   2   1   7   3   0   6   3  112
DH *David Ortiz         29  159  601  119  180  40  1  47  148 102  124  .300  .397  .604   1   0  13   1   0   9   9  161
    Tony Graffanino     33   51  188   39   60  12  1   4   20   9   23  .319  .355  .457   4   1   8   2   0   1   1  114



Here is the 2005 red sox, which had the best offense in the MLB.

The 2007 Red Sox is:


C- Varitek- Down grade
1B- Youkilis- Upgrade (2005 Millar had no power, Youkilis has a little power and better OBP)
2B- Dustin Pedroia (at worst a push, Bellhorn got most of the AB and couldn't do anything with the bat. Graffino had a nice August/ Sept.)
3b- Lowell- Push (Mueller had a slight edge in OBP, but Lowell has a slight edge in power)
SS- Upgrade (Renteria had his worst year)
LF- Manny- Push
CF- Crisp- Downgrade
RF- Drew- Upgrade (JD is much better player than Nixon. Plus nixon was hurt a huge chunk of the year)
DH- Papi-Push

2005 Batting order:
1. Damon
2. Renteria
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Millar
6. Nixon
7. Mueller
8. Varitek
9. Bellhorn

2007 Batting order:

1. Lugo
2. Youkilis
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Drew
6. Lowell
7. Varitek
8. Crisp
9. Dustin Pedroia
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