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Is the Boston Lineup as Dangerous as it Used to be?

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Postby Bloody Sox » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:36 am

AcidRock23 wrote:Gil Meche was able to have his way with them pretty nicely... :-? ;-D


Yeah, but even in the Sox best years in 2003-2005 they would turn Ted Lilly, Rodrigo Lopez, and Mark Hendrickson into Cy Young contenders every time they faced them.
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Postby Diggs » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:40 am

thedude wrote:Here is the 2005 red sox, which had the best offense in the MLB.

The 2007 Red Sox is:


C- Varitek- Down grade
1B- Youkilis- Upgrade (2005 Millar had no power, Youkilis has a little power and better OBP)
2B- Dustin Pedroia (at worst a push, Bellhorn got most of the AB and couldn't do anything with the bat. Graffino had a nice August/ Sept.)
3b- Lowell- Push (Mueller had a slight edge in OBP, but Lowell has a slight edge in power)
SS- Upgrade (Renteria had his worst year)
LF- Manny- Push
CF- Crisp- Downgrade
RF- Drew- Upgrade (JD is much better player than Nixon. Plus nixon was hurt a huge chunk of the year)
DH- Papi-Push

2005 Batting order:
1. Damon
2. Renteria
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Millar
6. Nixon
7. Mueller
8. Varitek
9. Bellhorn

2007 Batting order:

1. Lugo
2. Youkilis
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Drew
6. Lowell
7. Varitek
8. Crisp
9. Dustin Pedroia

Thank you for the insightful post but what is "your" conclusion? It looks like you're saying the Sox of now are potentially better from 1-5, but the '05 team was better 6-9. Would that be accurate?

If the 2005 offense was a "10" on a scale of 1-10, what is the 2007 comareably*?
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Postby ScrappyDoo » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:43 am

I dont understand how you can say this lineup is nothing to be scared of.

Lugo is somewhat of a question mark, got off to a slow start on opening day, but hes still got speed and power.

Youk. OBP machine, plus he faces sees so many pitches he can really wear down and frustrate pitchers.

Ortiz- Best power hitter in the AL.

Manny- Still one of the best hitters in the AL despite the headaches.

JD Drew- Injury Risk, but when healthy, a great hitter with great OBP.

Lowell- Older but still effective, Fenway is very favorable to his hitting. Giving him a lot of wall balls and doubles.

Varitek- I hate Varitek, great catcher, but has been reduced to an automatic out. Hopefully he can improve but he strikes out a lot and has lost almost all his hitting ability.

Coco - Last year he was hampered all year by the finger. He was great and Cleveland and this year I think hell prove all his doubters wrong. Hes not a bad option at the 8 hole, considering hes a .300 hitter with speed.

Pedroia - Dont know much about him, other than the fact he thinks hes the fastest person on the team (he isnt). But at the 9 hole its hard for him to be that much of a burden.

Overall you wont find a team that will post better OBP and wear pitchers down early in the majors, with the exception of the yankees.

IMO its a top 3 offense in the majors. Worst case top 5. I dont understand why people are doubting them.
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Postby Diggs » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:55 am

ScrappyDoo wrote:IMO its a top 3 offense in the majors. Worst case top 5. I dont understand why people are doubting them.

I started this thread because I felt "uncomfortable" that I was doubting them. A post like the one you made is what I was looking for; someone (multiple someones) to either talk some sense into me or tell me they were feeling the same.

Thanks for the post .....
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Postby Wk1b25 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:55 am

IMO its a top 3 offense in the majors. Worst case top 5. I dont understand why people are doubting them.


Perhaps because you're a Red Sox fan?
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Postby Morrison8312 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:58 am

Wk1b25 wrote:
IMO its a top 3 offense in the majors. Worst case top 5. I dont understand why people are doubting them.


Perhaps because you're a Red Sox fan?


I'm a Sox fan and right now I would say top 5 (Yanks, Mets, Blue Jays, and I really like the Indians lineup) ;-D
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Postby Dice » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:26 pm

Being a top 5 or top 3 offense is a step below what the Sox were a couple of years ago, which was one of the best offenses of all time, or at least team history. So I think the Sox offense is to be respected, but time will tell if they will be feared as they were a few years ago.
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Postby Morrison8312 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:37 pm

Dice wrote:Being a top 5 or top 3 offense is a step below what the Sox were a couple of years ago, which was one of the best offenses of all time, or at least team history. So I think the Sox offense is to be respected, but time will tell if they will be feared as they were a few years ago.


I didn't know you had to be the #1 offense or best offense of all time to be "feared" ;-7
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Postby thedude » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:42 pm

Diggs wrote:Thank you for the insightful post but what is "your" conclusion? It looks like you're saying the Sox of now are potentially better from 1-5, but the '05 team was better 6-9. Would that be accurate?

If the 2005 offense was a "10" on a scale of 1-10, what is the 2007 comareably*?


I would say it is a very good lineup but not great.

say 8.5/10.


The thing that made the 2003-2005 Red Sox so good was the way the wore out pitchers 1-9.

2003 was one of the 3 or so best lineups of all-time, so this lineup doesn't even compare to that one (they had a batting champ hitting 8th! and the number 9 hitter hit 25 homers)

This team is good, but i wouldn't be scared of starting decent pitchers against them at least not yet. If you have are worried about giving a pitcher a start against the Red Sox or Yankees that guy probably shouldn't be on your team anyway.
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Postby Melo255 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:54 pm

The team as it is constituted now might look similar or better than it was in 2003 but I don't think it really compares. The thing with guys like Mueller, Nixon, Varitek back when he could hit, Millar and even Bellhorn back then was that they always seemed to keep a hitting streak alive. We used to put up 8 run innings sometimes. I can remember when an inning would start with Millar and run through the lineup back to Bellhorn. We were never out of a game even down by 5 runs in the 9th and it just 'felt' like we were going to outscore everybody.

The Sox are still a top 5 offense and they can definitely explode for 14 runs in any given game against any starter but I don't feel as comfortable with the lineup as I did back then. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we just don't know how a lot of the guys in the lineup now are going to perform. Lugo, Drew, Varitek, Lowell, Pedroia and Crisp are all either coming off weak seasons, getting older, are hard to rely on or are unproven in Boston. It's still a great lineup compared to other teams but I wouldn't sit an ace or borderline #1 against them.
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