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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:03 pm
by Havok1517
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Cabrera has more dominating stuff. Personally, I'm a Loewen fan and would take him over Cabrera but the fireballer has a higher ceiling.


Again, I would just have to ask, "Based on what?"

Suppose you had never seen either guy pitch and you looked just at their performance on the field.

What evidence would you cite in favor of Cabrera's higher ceiling?

I think this is just an example of wishful thinking. A guy "looks better"---has good face as the scouts might say. But, my question is WHERE'S THE BEEF?

Cabrera's done very little to demonstrate better "stuff" where it really counts...on the field.

Doesn't matter how much "stuff" you got...if the hitters hit, it ain't good enough; if you can't get it over the plate consistently, it ain't gonna work.


It all about potential and a 100+ MPH fastball plus the Ks he is able to get give him the highest ceiling. I personally don't think he'll meet his ceiling but he could get well over 200Ks if matures his location.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:19 pm
by GotowarMissAgnes
Havok1517 wrote:

It all about potential and a 100+ MPH fastball plus the Ks he is able to get give him the highest ceiling. I personally don't think he'll meet his ceiling but he could get well over 200Ks if matures his location.


On potential...why would you say Cabrera has more potential, when Loewen has been better than him at every level, despite the fact that he was often 2-3 years younger?

On 100+ MPH fastball, you and I can name lots of guys who can dial it up to 100+ who aren't that good. Bill James' list from previous years includes guys like McClung and Denny Bautista. Speed isn't the key. Movement, control, consistency, and change of speed is.

Finally, as I have already pointed at, Loewen is just as good, if not better in getting Ks than Cabrera.

I know I may be beating a dead horse, but I just don't see any good points being put forward for the claim that Cabrera's got the higher ceiling.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:27 pm
by Havok1517
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:

It all about potential and a 100+ MPH fastball plus the Ks he is able to get give him the highest ceiling. I personally don't think he'll meet his ceiling but he could get well over 200Ks if matures his location.


On potential...why would you say Cabrera has more potential, when Loewen has been better than him at every level, despite the fact that he was often 2-3 years younger?

On 100+ MPH fastball, you and I can name lots of guys who can dial it up to 100+ who aren't that good. Bill James' list from previous years includes guys like McClung and Denny Bautista. Speed isn't the key. Movement, control, consistency, and change of speed is.

Finally, as I have already pointed at, Loewen is just as good, if not better in getting Ks than Cabrera.

I know I may be beating a dead horse, but I just don't see any good points being put forward for the claim that Cabrera's got the higher ceiling.


Look harder.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:52 pm
by GotowarMissAgnes
Havok1517 wrote:
Look harder.


Haven't seen much worth looking at.

As far as I can tell the claims are:
Cabrera throws harder.
Cabrera strikes out more guys.

The first has little relevance.
The second isn't true.

I've seen both guys pitch in both major and minor leagues.
I've looked carefully at the numbers.

Loewen's got a much higher ceiling.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:07 pm
by Yoda
Havok1517 wrote:Cabrera has more dominating stuff. Personally, I'm a Loewen fan and would take him over Cabrera but the fireballer has a higher ceiling.


Cabrera has better stuff but his ceiling is not higher than Loewen's. Loewen is still young and if he can improve his control, he will be a far better pither than Cabrera. Cabrera will likely never harness his stuff which is a shame.