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NL ROTY

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Who is the NL ROTY

Ryan Braun
69
85%
Troy Tulowitzki
11
14%
Hunter Pence
1
1%
 
Total votes : 81

Re: NL ROTY

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:36 pm

masterpinky0509 wrote:Ouch, I didn't realize Braun's defense sucked that much.


And that's only in 81 games. Over a full year, he would be around -30. Anyone foresee him moving positions down the road, which would hurt his fantasy value.
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby brewcrew4you » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
masterpinky0509 wrote:Ouch, I didn't realize Braun's defense sucked that much.


And that's only in 81 games. Over a full year, he would be around -30. Anyone foresee him moving positions down the road, which would hurt his fantasy value.


If Tony Gwynn Jr. could hit like his dad, maybe, but it doesn't look like it from here. The Brewers just spent a season getting Hall used to CF (he's the only alternative at 3B), and I don't think that Hart is the answer in CF if Braun was to move to a corner OF spot. Plus, with the drafting of LaPorta, I don't think they want to move Braun.
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby Ender » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:27 am

The easy answer is Braun, he has played less time or he'd be a sure thing and Tulo's stats are heavily influenced by Coors, he is Ryan Theroit only not quite as good on the road (yes just pathetic).

As for Braun's defense, I think there is still hope. He is a converted SS so he has moved down in the spectrum and just isnt' used to playing 3B yet. I dont' think he'll ever be a gold glover but I think he has a chance to become average in the long run.
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby acsguitar » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:45 am

Ender wrote:The easy answer is Braun, he has played less time or he'd be a sure thing and Tulo's stats are heavily influenced by Coors, he is Ryan Theroit only not quite as good on the road (yes just pathetic).

As for Braun's defense, I think there is still hope. He is a converted SS so he has moved down in the spectrum and just isnt' used to playing 3B yet. I dont' think he'll ever be a gold glover but I think he has a chance to become average in the long run.



Tulo has 8 HR's and 33 RBI's on the road compared to 12 and 49 at coors field. Thats not much different. Average wise yes its not great.

But he's a top 3 SS statistically and he has the most hr's ever for a NL ROOKIE SS.

Tulo is by far the better all around player to anyone who knows baseball. If thats what the award is based on then he should win it.

If you think Braun is a better all around player you are 100% wrong thats a fact.

BTW Tulo has more RBI's as well

BTW Fenway has a bigger Park Factor then does Coors so maybe we should discount everything Pedroia has done as well
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby Bwanna » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:38 pm

Derek Nelson, MVN.com wrote:Ryan Braun: The Real Natural
Ryan Braun homered twice last night to bring his season total to 30, sending two misguided pitches into the seats in the first two innings, just like he had done 28 times previously in his brief major league career, just like he has been doing all season long.

He’s a pull hitter who doesn’t need to pull everything. He’s a power hitter who can can hit for average. He’s a burly guy who can steal bases.

His name is Ryan Braun, he’s 23 years old, and on his off days, he flies around Milwaukee, protecting the city from crime.

—–

Mike Piazza and Albert Pujols. That is the list of names who have had rookie seasons that even rival Braun’s in recent memory. Last season, Hanley Ramirez did his best Rickey Henderson impression, going .292/.353/.480 with 17 homers, 119 runs, and 56 stolen bases as a 22-year-old. Fantastic, surely, but not Braun-like.

In 2001, Pujols had what many consider to the best rookie season of all time, in which he hit .329/.403/.610 with 37 homers, 130 RBI, 47 doubles and 112 runs. For a basis of comparison, that’s more like it.

One could defensibly include Ichiro in this list, but he was 27 during his rookie season, so never mind him. Before then, one has to travel back 14 seasons, all the way back to 1993, to find an worthwhile suitor, when Piazza hit .318 with 35 homers as a 24-year-old backstop for the Dodgers. You know that old saying, about misery loving company? Well, there’s another side to that equation: greatness disdains it. Particularly the kind of early-career greatness to which Pujols and Piazza have made us passengers. But, like any historic club or ballyhooed record deemed unreachable in baseball, there is always room for one more. Enter Ryan Braun.

One could even argue that Braun’s season is more impressive than either of the two, as he was robbed of nearly 50 games by that ill-faded Koskie/Graffanino/Counsell experiment. Since then, he has been nothing short of historic, going .325/.369/.641 with 30 homers in only 95 games. Piazza hit a home run in one in every 15.6 at-bats in his rookie season. Pujols’ rate was 15.9 AB/HR.

Comparatively, Braun has only needed 12.7 at-bats for every home run he has slugged, or roughly one in every three games. He is slugging .949 against lefties. He’s hit well at home, on the road, in day games, in night games, and though he hasn’t tried batting lefty quite yet, I’m sure he’d fair just fine. He’s even thrown in 14 stolen bases for good measure. Ho-hum.

The only flaw in his still-developing game is his defense, in which his all-too-powerful throwing arm results in error after throwing error; he is essentially a victim of his own outlandish talents. Fortunately for him, and unfortunately for the NL Central foes who have tried to pitch to him, his arm is the only baseball talent he has yet to effectively harness.

All of this only leaves me to ask: how has this story evaded popular lexicon? Braun is posting what may be the most impressive first-year season in the modern era, and the typical sports-minded American dad couldn’t pick him out of a police lineup featuring only him and four of the racing sausages. It’s sad, really.

His team is in the thick of the closest division race in baseball, so it’s not like he’s doing this on the Royals. He’s a likable, good-looking dude. He is going to win the Rookie of the Year if he breaks his leg, and could very well win the MVP if the Brewers limp into the playoffs.

Where is his Sports Illustrated cover? Where is the obligatory Jay Mariotti piece where he acts like he’s the first one to “discover” this “talent” in “Milwaukee”? Why isn’t hitting a homer off a lefty considered “Braunning one out”?

This is where the frequent critique of mainstream journalism has some merit, that columnists for the most part focus too much on the muck and too little on the good. I understand how the steroids scandal can overshadow a nice rookie season, but it doesn’t have to black it out completely. All I ask is for credit to be given where it is due.

What is most disheartening is that Rick Ankiel was dubbed the savior of baseball from the steroids scandal instead of Braun. Ankiel, for all his impressive antics, had absolutely no hope of sustaining his success the way Braun still does. With or without the HGH allegations, our nationwide lovefest for Ankiel was, undoubtedly, a fleeting endeavor. I mean, come on: Ankiel gets called “The Natural” while Braun gets “The Hebrew Hammer”? How about a little respect?

Either way, it is probably in Braun’s best interest to keep it down, because if he keeps hitting like this, the folks on the East Coast might just hear him.
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby Yoda » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:06 pm

Haha nice article and I totally agree. Braun doesn't seem to be getting as much hype despite his greatness. Imagine if he played in NY?
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby BJSFAN123 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:08 pm

Yoda wrote:Haha nice article and I totally agree. Braun doesn't seem to be getting as much hype despite his greatness. Imagine if he played in NY?


yea he is rarely talked about off the forum, baseball rookies never seem get much publicity though.
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby Scooter1027 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:50 pm

acsguitar wrote:
Ender wrote:The easy answer is Braun, he has played less time or he'd be a sure thing and Tulo's stats are heavily influenced by Coors, he is Ryan Theroit only not quite as good on the road (yes just pathetic).

As for Braun's defense, I think there is still hope. He is a converted SS so he has moved down in the spectrum and just isnt' used to playing 3B yet. I dont' think he'll ever be a gold glover but I think he has a chance to become average in the long run.



Tulo has 8 HR's and 33 RBI's on the road compared to 12 and 49 at coors field. Thats not much different. Average wise yes its not great.

But he's a top 3 SS statistically and he has the most hr's ever for a NL ROOKIE SS.

Tulo is by far the better all around player to anyone who knows baseball. If thats what the award is based on then he should win it.

If you think Braun is a better all around player you are 100% wrong thats a fact.

BTW Tulo has more RBI's as well

BTW Fenway has a bigger Park Factor then does Coors so maybe we should discount everything Pedroia has done as well


Wow, you're all over the board here. Tulo's had a great season, but your points are exaggerated and hurt your credibility.

1) Home split .337/.401/.573 (.973). Away split .249/.332/.385 (.707). That is a big, huge difference. Bigtime Coors factor, he's like Craig Counsell on the road.

2) If I think Braun's a better player I'm 100% wrong? Really? Yeah, Braun has quite a few errors, almost all of the throwing variety. Yeah, he has to reign that in, but it's plenty correctable. Other than that -- Braun is faster, a better baserunner (and basestealer), hits for higher average, hits for more power, and has a better OBP. So how again is Tulo better all around again? Oh, because you said it's fact.

3) Wow, more RBIs? Now you're reaching. In fact, coming into today, they both have 82, despite Braun having 142 fewer ABs. Not even a comparison (not that RBIs are a great comparison anyway).

4) What does Pedroia have to do with any of this? Bottom line Tulo is a massive .270 OPS better in the comfy hitting confines of Coors, a very significant split that really hurts his offensive credibility at this point, to me.

Tulo's a great player. In a lot of years, he'd be ROY, hands down. But what Braun has done this year is special, real special. He's had nothing short of a Pujolsian rookie year, with stolen bases to boot (and a few more errors, although Pujols did have 20 as a rook despite a lot of time at 1B and in the OF).
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby acsguitar » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:30 pm

Scooter1027 wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
Ender wrote:The easy answer is Braun, he has played less time or he'd be a sure thing and Tulo's stats are heavily influenced by Coors, he is Ryan Theroit only not quite as good on the road (yes just pathetic).

As for Braun's defense, I think there is still hope. He is a converted SS so he has moved down in the spectrum and just isnt' used to playing 3B yet. I dont' think he'll ever be a gold glover but I think he has a chance to become average in the long run.



Tulo has 8 HR's and 33 RBI's on the road compared to 12 and 49 at coors field. Thats not much different. Average wise yes its not great.

But he's a top 3 SS statistically and he has the most hr's ever for a NL ROOKIE SS.

Tulo is by far the better all around player to anyone who knows baseball. If thats what the award is based on then he should win it.

If you think Braun is a better all around player you are 100% wrong thats a fact.

BTW Tulo has more RBI's as well

BTW Fenway has a bigger Park Factor then does Coors so maybe we should discount everything Pedroia has done as well


Wow, you're all over the board here. Tulo's had a great season, but your points are exaggerated and hurt your credibility.

1) Home split .337/.401/.573 (.973). Away split .249/.332/.385 (.707). That is a big, huge difference. Bigtime Coors factor, he's like Craig Counsell on the road.

2) If I think Braun's a better player I'm 100% wrong? Really? Yeah, Braun has quite a few errors, almost all of the throwing variety. Yeah, he has to reign that in, but it's plenty correctable. Other than that -- Braun is faster, a better baserunner (and basestealer), hits for higher average, hits for more power, and has a better OBP. So how again is Tulo better all around again? Oh, because you said it's fact.

3) Wow, more RBIs? Now you're reaching. In fact, coming into today, they both have 82, despite Braun having 142 fewer ABs. Not even a comparison (not that RBIs are a great comparison anyway).

4) What does Pedroia have to do with any of this? Bottom line Tulo is a massive .270 OPS better in the comfy hitting confines of Coors, a very significant split that really hurts his offensive credibility at this point, to me.

Tulo's a great player. In a lot of years, he'd be ROY, hands down. But what Braun has done this year is special, real special. He's had nothing short of a Pujolsian rookie year, with stolen bases to boot (and a few more errors, although Pujols did have 20 as a rook despite a lot of time at 1B and in the OF).


Baseball is more then just offense don't forget that.

Tulo is at the top of his position Braun is at the bottom of his. Braun is not that much better then tulo to make up for the fact that Tulo is a gold glove caliber SS while Braun is horrible.

Oh and the "Braun's got a great arm so he throws it away alot" is a load of BS Tulo has a rocket cannon arm and his accuracy is pinpoint.
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Re: NL ROTY

Postby Scooter1027 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:22 pm

acsguitar wrote:
Scooter1027 wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Tulo has 8 HR's and 33 RBI's on the road compared to 12 and 49 at coors field. Thats not much different. Average wise yes its not great.

But he's a top 3 SS statistically and he has the most hr's ever for a NL ROOKIE SS.

Tulo is by far the better all around player to anyone who knows baseball. If thats what the award is based on then he should win it.

If you think Braun is a better all around player you are 100% wrong thats a fact.

BTW Tulo has more RBI's as well

BTW Fenway has a bigger Park Factor then does Coors so maybe we should discount everything Pedroia has done as well


Wow, you're all over the board here. Tulo's had a great season, but your points are exaggerated and hurt your credibility.

1) Home split .337/.401/.573 (.973). Away split .249/.332/.385 (.707). That is a big, huge difference. Bigtime Coors factor, he's like Craig Counsell on the road.

2) If I think Braun's a better player I'm 100% wrong? Really? Yeah, Braun has quite a few errors, almost all of the throwing variety. Yeah, he has to reign that in, but it's plenty correctable. Other than that -- Braun is faster, a better baserunner (and basestealer), hits for higher average, hits for more power, and has a better OBP. So how again is Tulo better all around again? Oh, because you said it's fact.

3) Wow, more RBIs? Now you're reaching. In fact, coming into today, they both have 82, despite Braun having 142 fewer ABs. Not even a comparison (not that RBIs are a great comparison anyway).

4) What does Pedroia have to do with any of this? Bottom line Tulo is a massive .270 OPS better in the comfy hitting confines of Coors, a very significant split that really hurts his offensive credibility at this point, to me.

Tulo's a great player. In a lot of years, he'd be ROY, hands down. But what Braun has done this year is special, real special. He's had nothing short of a Pujolsian rookie year, with stolen bases to boot (and a few more errors, although Pujols did have 20 as a rook despite a lot of time at 1B and in the OF).


Baseball is more then just offense don't forget that.

Tulo is at the top of his position Braun is at the bottom of his. Braun is not that much better then tulo to make up for the fact that Tulo is a gold glove caliber SS while Braun is horrible.

Oh and the "Braun's got a great arm so he throws it away alot" is a load of BS Tulo has a rocket cannon arm and his accuracy is pinpoint.


Believe me, I agree with you, defense matters. That's why I like Tulo, his glove is impressive. But that makes exactly 1 skill in which I would rate Tulo over Braun. That doesn't make him more well rounded to me (and certainly not better). Tulo's glove alone does not compensate for Braun's advantages in hitting for average, hitting for power, getting on base, and baserunning.

Something else to keep in mind -- Braun's first baseman does him no favors. Fielder's short stature and inability to dig balls out leads to quite a few more errors that quality first basemen prevent (like, say, Todd Helton). I'm not defending Braun's shortcomings, I know he needs work throwing the ball, but his error count probably shouldn't be as high as it is.
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