Return to Baseball Leftovers

NL ROTY

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Who is the NL ROTY

Ryan Braun
69
85%
Troy Tulowitzki
11
14%
Hunter Pence
1
1%
 
Total votes : 81

Re: NL ROTY

Postby Ender » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:55 am

If defense didn't matter we wouldn't be having this discussion because Braun makes Tulo look like a little leaguer offensively. If Tulo played in a real park this would be much closer as well but the fact is Tulo is eckstein, Counsell, Theroit outside of Coors. He is a completely useless offensive player with good but not amazing defense (sorry he is no everett). I just don't see how he wins this one unless the Rockies make the playoffs and the Brewers do not.
Ender
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 7705
(Past Year: -28)
Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL ROTY

Postby noseeum » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:53 am

Ender wrote:If defense didn't matter we wouldn't be having this discussion because Braun makes Tulo look like a little leaguer offensively. If Tulo played in a real park this would be much closer as well but the fact is Tulo is eckstein, Counsell, Theroit outside of Coors. He is a completely useless offensive player with good but not amazing defense (sorry he is no everett). I just don't see how he wins this one unless the Rockies make the playoffs and the Brewers do not.


Agreed. A .171 difference in OPS is ridiculous. Throw in the glaring home/away splits for Tulo and these guys are barely playing the same game. Braun is so far ahead of Tulo with the bat and on the bases we'd have to be talking about the worst defensive third baseman EVER and be comparing him to Ozzie Smith with the glove for the defense to bring Tulo back into the ROY competition.
noseeum
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1636
(Past Year: -61)
Joined: 1 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL ROTY

Postby Yoda » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:57 am

noseeum wrote:
Ender wrote:If defense didn't matter we wouldn't be having this discussion because Braun makes Tulo look like a little leaguer offensively. If Tulo played in a real park this would be much closer as well but the fact is Tulo is eckstein, Counsell, Theroit outside of Coors. He is a completely useless offensive player with good but not amazing defense (sorry he is no everett). I just don't see how he wins this one unless the Rockies make the playoffs and the Brewers do not.


Agreed. A .171 difference in OPS is ridiculous. Throw in the glaring home/away splits for Tulo and these guys are barely playing the same game. Braun is so far ahead of Tulo with the bat and on the bases we'd have to be talking about the worst defensive third baseman EVER and be comparing him to Ozzie Smith with the glove for the defense to bring Tulo back into the ROY competition.


Braun is on pace to be one of the worst defensive 3B ever... I like Tulo a lot but he is not nearly as good as Braun right now despite his glove.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21191
(Past Year: -153)
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Re: NL ROTY

Postby acsguitar » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:56 am

noseeum wrote:
Ender wrote:If defense didn't matter we wouldn't be having this discussion because Braun makes Tulo look like a little leaguer offensively. If Tulo played in a real park this would be much closer as well but the fact is Tulo is eckstein, Counsell, Theroit outside of Coors. He is a completely useless offensive player with good but not amazing defense (sorry he is no everett). I just don't see how he wins this one unless the Rockies make the playoffs and the Brewers do not.


Agreed. A .171 difference in OPS is ridiculous. Throw in the glaring home/away splits for Tulo and these guys are barely playing the same game. Braun is so far ahead of Tulo with the bat and on the bases we'd have to be talking about the worst defensive third baseman EVER and be comparing him to Ozzie Smith with the glove for the defense to bring Tulo back into the ROY competition.


Um Tulo is gonna be competing with ozzie for most assist I believe in a season or something like that.

Anyways would you give the award to a rookie DH? Braun is worse then a rookie DH because at least a rookie DH doesn't make errors
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
acsguitar
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Graphics Expert
Posts: 26605
(Past Year: -117)
Joined: 7 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Back in General Talk WOOO!!!

Re: NL ROTY

Postby Bwanna » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:35 am

acsguitar wrote:Anyways would you give the award to a rookie DH? Braun is worse then a rookie DH because at least a rookie DH doesn't make errors
LOL, you've got a good point there, and at first I though, 'Of course not'. But, if his offensive numbers were spectacular enough, I don't think you could *not* give him the award. Braun's offensive numbers simply are spectacular enough, so even if he were a DH, I'd give it to him.
[reg season/playoffs]
LFoD '08 [1st/3rd], '10 [1st/3rd], '11 [1st/2nd], '12 [1st/1st], '13, [1st/2nd], '14, [1st/1st]
BRAL '09 2nd, '10 1st
Bwanna
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle EyeInnovative MemberWeb Supporter
Posts: 5634
(Past Year: 20)
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL ROTY

Postby Scooter1027 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:09 pm

Bwanna wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Anyways would you give the award to a rookie DH? Braun is worse then a rookie DH because at least a rookie DH doesn't make errors
LOL, you've got a good point there, and at first I though, 'Of course not'. But, if his offensive numbers were spectacular enough, I don't think you could *not* give him the award. Braun's offensive numbers simply are spectacular enough, so even if he were a DH, I'd give it to him.


I think that's the key. As great as Tulo's defense has been (and as bad as Braun's has been), that one skill isn't enough to overcome the dramatic difference in offense, and to a certain extent, baserunning. Braun's offensive numbers are not just great, they are spectacular. We're talking a 1.014 OPS as a rookie (1.458 against LHP)! He has 14 SB, and would likely have many more if he weren't hitting 3rd, in a dynamic lineup, and in front of Prince Fielder.

I think Ender summed it up well. Tulo's away splits paint the picture of a guy who isn't anywhere near Braun offensively, not even close. Outside of Coors, he's Craig Counsell (with a touch more slugging and less OBP) -- great glove (although no Adam Everett), and no bat.
Scooter1027
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 1121
(Past Year: -3)
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL ROTY

Postby Bwanna » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:36 pm

Scooter1027 wrote:Braun's offensive numbers are not just great, they are spectacular. We're talking a 1.014 OPS as a rookie (1.458 against LHP)! He has 14 SB, and would likely have many more if he weren't hitting 3rd, in a dynamic lineup, and in front of Prince Fielder.


Personally, I've become somewhat unappreciative of Braun -- I simply expect nothing less than at least 2 hits every night, with a homer every 3rd or 4th game, and a bag thrown in about once a week. And honestly, I think many of us have.

But, stepping back... his stats are simply incredible. Per AB, he's had one of the best rookie seasons EVER -- even a bit better than Albert. I'm sure this has been beaten to death on this board, but extrapolated over 590 ABs (what Pujols had is rookie season), Braun would have 45 HRs (+8), 124 RBIs (-6), 14 bags (+13), .328 (-.001), 1.014 OPS (+.001).

He would also have 31 errors compared to Albert's 2001 total of 20, which is actually closer to Albert in that regard that I thought.
[reg season/playoffs]
LFoD '08 [1st/3rd], '10 [1st/3rd], '11 [1st/2nd], '12 [1st/1st], '13, [1st/2nd], '14, [1st/1st]
BRAL '09 2nd, '10 1st
Bwanna
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle EyeInnovative MemberWeb Supporter
Posts: 5634
(Past Year: 20)
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Previous

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron