Return to Baseball Leftovers

Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby dillpickle » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:06 am

I officially think Jim Leyland is a very bad manager. Yesturday’s game confirmed it. Ninth inning of a 0-0 tie. Tiger’s have Rabello (backup catcher) on 2nd with one out with Inge and Santiago the next two batters due up. Inge is hitting about .238 this year and Santiago is roughly a career .245 hitting in the minors. Raburn (330 hitter this year), Maybin (fastest player on the team) and Pudge (280 hitter this year) on the bench. Just setting the stage. What happens next is an absolute mystery to me. Instead using Pudge as a pinch hitter, he puts him on second as a pinch runner for Rabello. The fastest player on the team, Maybin, remains on the bench. He lets Inge hit with Rayburn on the bench. OK…survives this fiasco as Inge draws a walk. Wheeewwwwww. He definitely won’t let a career 245 minor league hitter who was just called up last week bat with Rayburn (or even Maybin) available on the bench, right???? Wrong. Santiago bats, first pitch, pop out….two outs, runners on first and second. The Indians change pitchers, bringing in a lefty to face Granderson, who bats 157 against lefties. Rayburn and Maybin are right handed. Of course, he’s going with Rayburn. Right? Wrong. Granderson strikes out to end the inning.

Problem #1—“Wasting” pudge as a pinch runner when Maybin was available (and actually used as a pinch runner in the 10th) and letting Inge and/or Santiago bat with Pudge unable having been used a pinch runner.
Problem #2—Letting both Inge and Santiago bat with the winning run on 2nd with less then two outs when Pudge and Rayburn were both or should have been both avaible to pinch hit.
Problem #3—Letting Granderson face the lefty when Rayburn was available to hit.

I’m still scratching my head at how inept Leyland appeared in the 9th inning yesterday. It was actually on the crazy side. I expected to read that Rayburn had the flu virus that had been going around, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. Anyone have any idea what Leyland could have been thinking as all this was happening?
dillpickle
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 147
Joined: 7 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby giants! » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:53 am

Granderson is one of the better hitters on the team, you don't just take the bat out of his hands in a crucial situation, regardless of his splits.
As for the pinch running, maybe he figured the game could go long into extras and he didnt want to have to waste Maybin by subbing in Pudge in the next half inning to play catcher.
I dont have a response as to why he'd leave Santiago in
giants!
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2825
(Past Year: -157)
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:25 pm

John McLaren says hi. I swear the M's are winning despite their terrible management. It's amazing to see really. :-[
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13224
(Past Year: -486)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby nyrblue2 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:31 pm

I guess I can understand why he didn't have Maybin run, considering any pinch runner would mean he was just going to have to put Pudge in to catch anyway. That being said, I don't think he should have even taken Rabello out. Is Pudge really that much faster than his back-up catcher counterpart?

As far as not pinch-hitting for Inge, Santiago or Granderson, I don't understand that at all. I don't like the idea that he was trying to save his bench players in case it went deep into extra innings. When given a good opportunity (and a man on 2nd with no outs certainly is one), you need to go for the win. Put in the guys that will get it done.

As far as the Granderson issue, yes, he's been a solid player this year and I am a big fan of his. Still, you can't ignore the fact that he is absolutely awful against lefties. I mean, he usually doesn't even start against solid lefties, so why would you let him hit against one when you have a chance to win the game? Ok...maybe since there were already 2 outs....but still...
nyrblue2
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Lucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 1508
(Past Year: -2)
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby dillpickle » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:11 pm

I was just going to point that out regarding Granderson. If he’s good enough to hit lefties in the 9th inning with a runner on 2nd that would win the game, then he should be good enough to start against all lefties. Fact is, Leyland doesn’t start him most of the time a lefty is starting for the opposing team. Complete contradiction by Leyland and his team/game management. A 157 split against lefties isn’t just bad. It is flat out awful. I say this and I too am a big Granderson fan.

The fact that he put Pudge in the game indicates he had no problem with him catching, if the game went extra innings (which it did). That said, why waste his .280 batting average pitch running while letting a .235 hitter hit and a career .245 MINOR Leaguer hit? If he is pinch running, you go with the guy that (1) has the best chance to get to third on a pitch in the dirt that gets away from the catcher or (2) has the best chance of scoring on a hard hit single to the OF. That would be Maybin and defininitely not Pudge. The fact Maybin pinch ran the following inning indicates he was healthy enough and available to do it the inning prior when it was most necessary (9th inning). Still can’t figure out how Rayburn sat on the bench while all this was going on. Simply amazing. Leyland was left with his pants around his ankles. A manager should always put their team in the best position to win. He completely and miserably failed yesterday in a very, very, very important game.
dillpickle
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 147
Joined: 7 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby MotorCityKitties » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:37 pm

I think the honeymoon is over with Leyland. I also thought he was horrible the other night in the 9th. Other things like overusing Grilli, batting Casey 3rd, playing Neifi and things that I can't remember at the moment. Last season he made some of the same off the wall decisions, but everything he did worked out somehow.
MotorCityKitties
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1359
(Past Year: -12)
Joined: 7 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby dillpickle » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:47 pm

Leyland seems to be loyal, which I'm sure the players respect. I think they play hard for him because of this trait among others. Strategically, I just don't see it. Yesturday was an absolute joke.

The fact it took him a long, long time to figure out the bullpen wasn't very good cost them many games earlier this year. I'm still not sure he has figured it out, although the bullpen is better now then it was. I could tell 10 games into the season that Zumaya wasn't "himself" and Rodney wasn't "himself"...or the pitchers of last year. Grilli was never any good, but he still used him over and over and over again.

As much as I say players probably like playing for him, I'm sure at some point, the starting pitchers are going to get upset. He continually pulls them out of games, which they have earned the right to win or lose themselves and not the pen. Robertson should have kept the ball and told Leyland to go back in the dugout and smoke a cig. There is no way he should have been pulled anything short of 120 pitches yesturday. He earned the right to win or lose that game himself. Earlier in the year, he pulled Bonderman after 84 pitches of 2 hit ball only to have the pen blow that game. It has been a very sad year in that regard. Jurrjens was pulled after 78 pitches of 1 hit ball. Luckily the bullpen kept that lead for a win, but the point remains. Not sure the current starting pitching struggle isn't more phychological as a result of Leyland's quick hook, bullpen blown lead, an starter's frustrations.
dillpickle
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 147
Joined: 7 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:33 am

Leyland's managing was simply pathetic last night. He actually had a fairly easy solution to the problem.

Let Maybin run for Rabelo.

Pudge hits for Santiago

Maybin moves to LF, Thames to 1B, Guillen to SS, PUdge to C.

Leyland's in-game managing is awful. However, his clubhouse managing/teaching skills may be decent, and this might be worth as much as in-game strategy...
buffalobillsrul2002
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1345
(Past Year: -2)
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby Surfs up » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:01 am

Its always SOOOOOOO much easier to sit in front of the TV and say what managers should or shouldn't do. They make mistakes just like the rest of us do at work.But for the most part they do a great job overall. Todays game isn't easy. Lots of pressure coming from everywhere. I don't thik I would want that job.
Surfs up
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero


Posts: 5369
(Past Year: 718)
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby nsulham » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:08 am

Terry Francona says hi also.
nsulham
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 4845
(Past Year: -38)
Joined: 26 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Charlottesville

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron