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Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby smoovethug » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:26 pm

Two words...Charlie Manuel. %-6
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby MotorCityKitties » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:06 am

Leyland had Timo Perez batting third last night. I realize the intent is to keep most players where they usually bat, but timo batting third is terrible.

Here's Rotoworld's take:

Magglio Ordonez singled four times against the Royals on Tuesday but failed to score or drive in a run in a 6-3 loss.
The Tigers collected 16 hits in the contest and even added two walks, but they could score just three runs thanks to some very unclutch hitting. Every starter except Ramon Santiago had the opportunity to drive in at least two runners and failed. The biggest culprit was Timo Perez, who for some unknown reason was hitting third in the lineup. He stranded five runners in the contest, and manager Jim Leyland's lineup arrangement deserves some of the blame for tonight's loss.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby Surfs up » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:19 am

I take what Rotoworld says with a grain of salt. I've seen them make more wrong calls then I have managers bad calls. As I said before . Its very easy for us to second guess managers. But for the most part they get it right.Had Timo hit well last night everybody would be says he was a genius.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby MotorCityKitties » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:23 am

Surfs up wrote:I take what Rotoworld says with a grain of salt. I've seen them make more wrong calls then I have managers bad calls. As I said before . Its very easy for us to second guess managers. But for the most part they get it right.Had Timo hit well last night everybody would be says he was a genius.


I agree about Rotoworld, but I was really just using their blurb to support the idea that Timo should not be batting third. The difference between this year and last year is that in 06 Timo would have gone 3/4 with 4 RBI's. Leyland could do no wrong last year. This season his questionable moves have not paid off quite as well. It is easy to second guess, but this season his "magic touch" is gone.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby Surfs up » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:35 am

I agree with you to an extent. Last year the whole team came together. This year Sheffield came in and was a boost to the offense. He is a hard guy to replace. Rogers was excellent and has been hurt.Even though he is in the dugout I believe its harder for him to help teach the kids without being out there. The young pitchers have been hot and cold. Bonderman mostly. Just can't get through the first inning.Even Pudge is having a tough year. Hes' a .300 lifetime hitter. The power numbers are down team wise from last year. Inge is Inge with batting average but isn't hitting for power. Monroe was a key player last year and has been traded.Its NOT all or even MOSTLY Leylands fault. I think hes doing an excellent job. They same can be said about Joe Torre. What has hee done in his time with the Yankees? But when things don't work out its quick to point the figer at the manager.They can't fire the team. I trust Leyland . I think hes one of the best managers in baseball. The Tigers may not make the playoffs but it won't be Leylands fault if they don't.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby MotorCityKitties » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:45 am

Surfs up wrote:I agree with you to an extent. Last year the whole team came together. This year Sheffield came in and was a boost to the offense. He is a hard guy to replace. Rogers was excellent and has been hurt.Even though he is in the dugout I believe its harder for him to help teach the kids without being out there. The young pitchers have been hot and cold. Bonderman mostly. Just can't get through the first inning.Even Pudge is having a tough year. Hes' a .300 lifetime hitter. The power numbers are down team wise from last year. Inge is Inge with batting average but isn't hitting for power. Monroe was a key player last year and has been traded.Its NOT all or even MOSTLY Leylands fault. I think hes doing an excellent job. They same can be said about Joe Torre. What has hee done in his time with the Yankees? But when things don't work out its quick to point the figer at the manager.They can't fire the team. I trust Leyland . I think hes one of the best managers in baseball. The Tigers may not make the playoffs but it won't be Leylands fault if they don't.


I wasn't blaming Leyland for the season. The players and injuries have been to blame. Someone questioned his in game strategy and I agreed. I think he is great at motivating, loyal, personable and his players play hard for him.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby Surfs up » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:46 am

I know you weren't blaming him. Sorry didn't mean to make it sound that way.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:07 pm

Surfs up wrote:I take what Rotoworld says with a grain of salt. I've seen them make more wrong calls then I have managers bad calls. As I said before . Its very easy for us to second guess managers. But for the most part they get it right.Had Timo hit well last night everybody would be says he was a genius.


I'm fine with that take on Rotoworld, but the fact is, not hitting Timo Perez 3rd is something basically every other manager would know to do, and the fact is, no way should Perez have been hitting 3rd.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby bleach168 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:51 pm

smoovethug wrote:Two words...Charlie Manuel. %-6


I agree Manuel is horrible but the funny thing is if Philly wins their divisions, Manuel probably wins Manager of the year.
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Re: Is Leyland the worse manager in baseball in terms of stratag

Postby dillpickle » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:49 pm

All in all, it is hard to really complain about Leyland. Well at least it was before this year started. I was just point out something that I think is BY FAR the worse managed half inning I have ever seen from a major league skipper.

That said, I've taken exception to quite a few things this year. His handling of the pitching staff has been BRUTAL. It got to the point where I was absolutely hoping Dombrowski would cut Grilli. I felt this was the only way Leyland wouldn't use the guy. Grilli is flat out awful. His fastball is the straightest pitch I have seen at the major league level. Has no secondary stuff he can consistantly throw near the plate. Yet Leyland has used him continually in crucial situations. More often then not after he immaturely removed a starter who was pitching a great game. Most of this was early in the season. What should have been wins early on, would look great right about now.

I vividly remember listening to Leyland in a pregame interview. This was probably six to eight weeks ago. He goes on and on about how his starters need to go further into games. Then the game starts and Durbin pitches a gem (6 IP, 1 ER, 88 pitches). Leyland takes him out. Say what? Just two hours earlier you are going on and on about how starters need to go further into games. Gets Durbin, of all starters, to pitch very good. He yanks him and the bullpen blows something like their 14th game of the year. This was at the time the Tiger's bullpen was getting beat up bad, which led to Leyland defending them in an interview stating that the starters need to go longer. Stuff like that just makes me scratch my head. I'm not sure at what point Leyland decided 80 pitches for a major league starter is a lot. He pulled Bonderman a few times, while he was pitching effectively with a very low pitch count. All this when it was obvious after 10 games that the Tiger's bullpen wasn't very good this year. Zumaya couldn't throw his off speed stuff for strikes. Rodney was barely topping 90 mph on the gun. Grilli sucks either way.

OK. Rant over. Obviously I'm a frustrated Tiger fan.
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