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Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

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Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby kemper5 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:14 pm

He's obviously nearing the end of his career..Does he deserve HOF consideration? Consider his #'s to this point..He should hit # 500 before the end of the year..

HR's 498
RBI's 1382
Hits 1908
Ave .281

To me he will have trouble getting in. with these type numbers..I feel he will retire soon (next year)..Let me know if you think he's worthy..A 500 HR hitter, but thats about it!
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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:39 pm

Did you know Jim Thome was 5th on the all-time post season HR list?

Home Runs
Rank Player HR PA
1. Bernie Williams 22 544
2. Manny Ramirez 20 360
3. Reggie Jackson 18 318
Mickey Mantle 18 273
5. Derek Jeter 17 545
Jim Thome 17 216
7. Babe Ruth 15 167
8. David Justice 14 471
9. Jim Edmonds 13 252
Chipper Jones 13 412
Albert Pujols 13 224

17 HRs in 216 ABs not too shabby

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:50 pm

Some other stats lets see:

4th all-time in ABs per HR 13.6 ABs per HR

17th all-time in OPS at .972

17th alltime in SLG%

OB% 38th all-time

23rd all-time in HRs

70th all-time in RBI

20th all-time in BB

OPS+ 37th all-time

5 time All-Star

Silver slugger in 1996

I think this guy is a shoe in for the HOF he is easily one of the top 50 power hitters ever, probably higher, but I will just say top 50.

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:54 pm

I would also add that you may think Thome retires after next year, but who knows? Thome could hit 600 HR if he were to play 3 more years, key word could. 550 is more realistic, but 600 is very possible.

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby Tavish » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:47 am

The Cow wrote:I think this guy is a shoe in for the HOF he is easily one of the top 50 power hitters ever, probably higher, but I will just say top 50.

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He is in the top 50 but I don't think he is a shoe in.

1 HR title
1 SLG title
1 OPS title
0 MVP awards
Never lead the league in Runs, RBIs, or OBP.

Sure these aren't the greatest measures for a player's ability, but they are things that the voters will look at. He is well behind Thomas, Bagwell, and McGwire in comparison to the early 1B of this generation. I have him slightly above guys like Helton, McGriff, Giambi, and Delgado.
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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:09 pm

Tavish wrote:
The Cow wrote:I think this guy is a shoe in for the HOF he is easily one of the top 50 power hitters ever, probably higher, but I will just say top 50.

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He is in the top 50 but I don't think he is a shoe in.

1 HR title
1 SLG title
1 OPS title
0 MVP awards
Never lead the league in Runs, RBIs, or OBP.

Sure these aren't the greatest measures for a player's ability, but they are things that the voters will look at. He is well behind Thomas, Bagwell, and McGwire in comparison to the early 1B of this generation. I have him slightly above guys like Helton, McGriff, Giambi, and Delgado.


Did you see the stat where Thome is 4th all-time in HRs per AB. That means that only 3 players in the history of the game were more prolific per AB at hitting the long ball. 3 guys and thats it. According to Baseball Reference's HOF monitor Thome is in...

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby Tavish » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:48 pm

The Cow wrote:Did you see the stat where Thome is 4th all-time in HRs per AB. That means that only 3 players in the history of the game were more prolific per AB at hitting the long ball. 3 guys and thats it. According to Baseball Reference's HOF monitor Thome is in...

The Cow


Does that mean that Adam Dunn is a shoe in HoFer? Only 6 people have been better than him at AB/HR.

Thome has a 127 HoF monitor. That puts him behind:

Edgar Martinez
Bernie Williams
Larry Walker
Gary Sheffield
Todd Helton
Manny Ramirez
Roberto Alomar
Craig Biggio
Vlad Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Ichiro Suzuki

Along with the true shoe ins like Bonds, A-Rod, Thomas, Bagwell, Piazza, Jeter, Griffey, Pudge, etc. Are all of these going to make it into the Hall?

Thome doesn't pass any of the other 3 Standards tests.
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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:29 pm

Tavish wrote:
The Cow wrote:Did you see the stat where Thome is 4th all-time in HRs per AB. That means that only 3 players in the history of the game were more prolific per AB at hitting the long ball. 3 guys and thats it. According to Baseball Reference's HOF monitor Thome is in...

The Cow


Does that mean that Adam Dunn is a shoe in HoFer? Only 6 people have been better than him at AB/HR.

Thome has a 127 HoF monitor. That puts him behind:

Edgar Martinez
Bernie Williams
Larry Walker
Gary Sheffield
Todd Helton
Manny Ramirez
Roberto Alomar
Craig Biggio
Vlad Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Ichiro Suzuki

Along with the true shoe ins like Bonds, A-Rod, Thomas, Bagwell, Piazza, Jeter, Griffey, Pudge, etc. Are all of these going to make it into the Hall?

Thome doesn't pass any of the other 3 Standards tests.

Well Thome is not done yet so he will pass some of these guys. As far as Adam Dunn goes get back to me when he hits 500 HRs, then we can debate the merits of his .240 BA AVG or whatever it will be.

As for the other guys some are HOFers lets see off the top of my head

Edgar Martinez- not near the power hitter of a Thome, I say no for a variety of reasons
Bernie Williams- NOPE just not dominant enough
Larry Walker- hmm if not for the injuries yes, right now on the fence
Gary Sheffield- I think he is a shoe in
Todd Helton- Coors field, on the fence
Manny Ramirez- HOFer shoe in
Roberto Alomar- HOFer shoe in considering position
Craig Biggio- HOFer based on 3000 hits, not a HOFer year by year, but longevity gets him in and 3000 hits
Vlad Guerrero- I think he is well on his way, yep HOFer
Chipper Jones- Doesn't have Thome power numberss now does he? Close call he needs a couple more good years
Ichiro Suzuki- Table setter high average guy, I say yes he is a HOFer the talent is obvious, numbers not as high as they could be due to playing in Japan

Well you named a bunch of HOFers IMO. Some are on the fence, IMO. None of those guys are definately out. The only guys on that list that rival Thome as a power hitter are Shef, Vlad and Manny and I think all of those will be HOFers when all is said and done.

You mentioned earlier that Thome will retire after next year, I wouldn't be too sure about that. Thome could play 3 more years. Just a note Thome's numbers are still pretty good this year, he has 26 HRs or the same as Matt Holliday in 100 fewer ABs or so. Thome could finish with 600 HRs, but even if he retires next year he will end up with 530 HRs, he is in, in, in... Especially when you factor in his 37th all-time best OPS+

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby brewcrew4you » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:59 pm

2 thoughts:
1. It's "shoo-in". No "e".

2. Jim Thome doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. Good power hitter without much else to offer, sure. Hall of Fame? Not good enough... See Palmeiro, Raphael or Baines, Harold.
http://hallofverygood.blogspot.com/ wrote:The case against:
Less than 2000 career hits is VERY underwhelming. Edgar Renteria has more hits than Jim Thome.

No MVP awards, only one top five finish (fourth in 2003).

Third on the all-time strikeout list.

No rings in two World Series appearances...a career .229 post season batting average. Heck...he wasn't even the best player on the Indians during his days in Cleveland.

They will be FAR too many more qualified first time inductees by the time Thome becomes eligible.


Edits* - I've always been bunk at getting a link as the author of a quote, I think third time's the charm here.
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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:08 pm

brewcrew4you wrote:2 thoughts:
1. It's "shoo-in". No "e".

2. Jim Thome doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. Good power hitter without much else to offer, sure. Hall of Fame? Not good enough... See Palmeiro, Raphael or Baines, Harold.
hallofverygood.blogspot.com wrote:The case against:
Less than 2000 career hits is VERY underwhelming. Edgar Renteria has more hits than Jim Thome.

No MVP awards, only one top five finish (fourth in 2003).

Third on the all-time strikeout list.

No rings in two World Series appearances...a career .229 post season batting average. Heck...he wasn't even the best player on the Indians during his days in Cleveland.

They will be FAR too many more qualified first time inductees by the time Thome becomes eligible.


\
Thome's OBP is much higher than many HOFers with a higher BA. As far as Palmeiro goes he would be a SHOO in HOFer if not for getting busted with the roids. Thome will have more than 2000 career hits. As for baines he is no where near the power hitter of a Thome. Thome was not the best player on the Indians sure it was future HOFer Manny Ramirez. Thome's OPS+ stacks up with the greats in the game. MVP awards are often a joke, I don't put too much stock in them.

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