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Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby noseeum » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:26 am

thedude wrote:I would put Jim Rice, Dale Murphy, and Andre Dawson in before Thome.

Thome has those nice counting numbers, but no MVPs (highest finish was 4th), only one silver slugger (from a guy who is only a slugger), no gold gloves, and five allstar games. Are awards the end all and be all? Of course not, but they do indicate dominant players and Jim Thome was and is not enough of a dominant player to make the hall of fame, at least until Rice, Murphy, and Dawson make it.


Murphy was a great player for six years, but then was terrible for the rest of his career. I mean god awful. His highest OBP after '88 was .318. I mean, wow. That is just awful, esp for an outfielder. He's one of the strangest players to evaluate for HOF. Two MVPs in a row, a couple of amazing years. But to me, six years of greatness doesn't cut it for a hitter if that's literally all he's got. We're not talking Sandy Koufax greatness here, so he's out. I'd put Thome in first.

Rice should be in. Dawson, I don't know, I think I'd put Thome first.
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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:08 am

I am going to go out on a limb and say that if Rice played in Cleveland there is no talk of the HOF for him. Rice had a career OBP of .352, THome .408. Rice only hit over 30 HRs 4 times, Jim Thome 10 times(11 if he hits 2 more this year). I see that Rice had a few good years, but his career just doesn't stack up with a Thome. Perhaps you can make a case for Rice as a HOFer, but there is no way Rice had better career numbers than Thome. Thome not only had better counting stats than Rice he had the better OPS, OPS+, ABS per HR etc.... The only thing Rice has on Thome is the MVP and thats it. For those that don't know Rice has 382 career HRs, Thome 500 and counting. As for Dale Murphy not even close, Murphy had a couple good seasons, but not a HOF career. As for Dawson he is ahead of Murphy and real close with Rice, but Thome crushes all of these guys in OPS+. Sorry one MVP season does not get you a ticket to Cooperstown. Again maybe you can make a case for Dawson, but Thome is clearly better.

OPS+
THome 149
Rice 128
Dawson 119
Murphy 121

Like I said not even close. Thome clearly was the better hitter of this group.

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby J35J » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:25 am

Yeah, Thome > Rice, Dawson and Murphy. I would vote Thome in when he is all said and done.....I'm not sure he will be a no-brainer to the actually voters but he'll get in.
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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby The Cow » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:04 pm

J35J wrote:Yeah, Thome > Rice, Dawson and Murphy. I would vote Thome in when he is all said and done.....I'm not sure he will be a no-brainer to the actually voters but he'll get in.



I find it interesting that a K.C. fan thinks Thome should get in over Rice, Dawson and Murphy. Probably had something to do with you seeing him play a bit more than East Coasters.

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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby jondunc » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:43 pm

To me there is no doubt that Thome is a HOFer, but I think the deciding factor here is likely to be Thome's like-ability. Though his numbers don't make him a lock, I think two things will push him over the top:

1) the fact that he is seen as a fantastic teammate/interview/person
2) that he is seen as an example of a slugger who is believed to have achieved his numbers "cleanly".

I wouldn't underestimate the impact those perceptions will have on a Hall looking for "clean" inductees from the steroid era.
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Re: Jim Thome..500 HR's, but not a HOF'er?

Postby HOOTIE » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:14 am

thedude wrote:I would put Jim Rice, Dale Murphy, and Andre Dawson in before Thome.


You sure? Thome crushes those 3 in ops+, EQA, BRAA.

My rank

Thomas, easily the best of the 6 mentioned. A top 5 1b.

Bagwell 2nd, Thome 3rd. Bagwell beats Thome in EQA, and crushes him in base running and fielding.

Big gap to 4th.

Rice, borderline imo.
Dawson 5th, really overrated. Bad oba.
Murphy 6th
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