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The Yankee's and Stienbrenner, an outsiders perspective.

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The Yankee's and Stienbrenner, an outsiders perspective.

Postby Tribe-Fan » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:50 am

I have read many a thread on here the last few months regarding the Yankees and in particular George Stienbrenner. Most are negative, except the Yakee fans who are mostly positive. The title of my post says "an outsiders perspective" because I am not a Yankee fan, or hater really although that is a popular position in my home town. But I do think the argument on this issue is colored by emotion, mostly pro-yankee from their fans and anti-yankee from others, mostly Red Sox fans.

Here is my take. The rules are the rules. George doesn't break any in these deals he makes. They instituted a penalty for high-salary teams, and George just pays that penalty. All the teams could do that if they had the money.

I think George gets a bad rap most of the time. He is destroying the game, doesn't care about baseball, etc, etc, etc. Why? He is playing within the rules. Should he hold back because it doesn't seem fair to other teams? Does Pedro ease off on a weak hitter because it's not fair that he has so much more talent? Does Pierre run slower when stealing 2nd if he is facing an inferior catcher?

What is baseball? It is a game, a contest, a competition, and the desired result is winning, period. The Yankees are playing within the rules, doing everything and anything thay can do to win. I wish every team owner in my town did that. I think much of the bad rap George gets is because others wish their team did that as well.

Think of it this way. We are all baseball nuts in here, that is a given. If you had a team, and a virtually unlimited cash supply, and already had everything you ever needed in life, wouldn't you blow every dollar you had building and improving your team? Think of it in fantasy terms. If 11 teams in your league had the standard $260 budget, but you alone had $1000, would you just spend $260, or would you blow it all?

You can think the man is a jerk, or arrogant, or spiteful (I actually like that one), and you can root against the dreaded Yankees if you want, but I can't see how anyone could not give them their due for trying as hard as they can to field a championship team. That is after all the object of the game.
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Postby SHOCKandAWE » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:26 am

2 comments:

":Here is my take. The rules are the rules. George doesn't break any in these deals he makes. They instituted a penalty for high-salary teams, and George just pays that penalty. All the teams could do that if they had the money. "

George breaking the rules and then pays the penalty. This is playing within the rules?? Why have a penalty. Any intelligent human being can see that this is a rule. The only reason they can't enforce it to the extent they want is because of the players union and trying to pass a cap. God forbid the players only make 5 million instead of 20 million.

Because of stupid a$$ unions the game is ruined!!!!!!!!

By the way I don't care about the Yankees, Red Sox, or any other AL team for that matter.

I do however like yankee stadium. I was there once to watch them play the Jays and I rooted for the Yanks
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Postby KDOGG » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:23 am

i'm glad to hear someone thats not a yankee fan agreeing with george and the rest of us in saying that other teams could do this type of thing as well. If the red sox werent so cheap they could've gotten Arod but the let him slip. Im sick of hearing everyone whine and complain about George, the yanks, and their spending tactics because if their favorite team did the same thing they wouldnt be ripping them.
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Postby eli81k » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:42 am

Hey, why bother to have roster restrictions if you think about it. If the Yankees can afford to pay 40 players, let them have that many on their active roster.

How about a 15-man pitching staff with 3 lefthanded specialists? Let's throw in three more world class sprinters just to pintch run.

Oh, that's against the rules? Why? Isn't it well within economic means? So far as I've heard in this thread, if something is within a teams economic means, it is justified.

That would imply that the 25 man roster requirement is obviously unfair even to the Yankees. So why would major league baseball bother with such an unfair rule?

Oh, yeah, competative ballance. Can other teams, even small market teams win? Certainly, though the odds are against them. Can they reload every single season completely independent of their farm system? No. It doesn't seem to bother people that such is unfair, you guys should be lobbying for abolition of the 25 man roster.

Come to think of it, you should demand compensation from the Diamondbakcs, Rockies, Marlins, and Devil Rays. The expansion draft is clearly a violation of New York's ability to compete as best as they possibly can. Why should one team help to stock another?

Why bother with a draft? If New York can pay players coming out of the amateur ranks more, they deserve those players right? Makes sense. Why should New York stand by and wait for less funded teams to take players that King George is interested in?

Because you sell competition. The more level the playing field for all teams, the better the competition, the better the baseball, the better the state of the game.

That is why there is an amateur draft. That is why there is a roster limit. That is why expansion drafts have been held. Because they all create better competition.

I don't rip George because he exploits a failing system.

However, I am certainly not going to absolve him either. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
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Postby Tribe-Fan » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:09 am

I think both Shock and Eli are missing my point. Going over the luxury tax threshold is not "breaking the rules". When I say George pays the penalty I simply mean he pays his tax as instituted by the league. It is not against the rules to play that way. I probably should not have used the word penalty, because it is not a fine for breaking rules, rather a fee that is within the rules. It doesn’t say you can’t go over the threshold, it says that if you do go over, you have to pay a fee.

And the examples Eli states, 40 man rosters, abolishing the draft, those are not within the rules, which is why no one can do that.

And how is George exploiting the system? He is playing within the rules he is given. Do you really think he should spend less because other teams spend less? What would be his reason, to be nice? Because he feels sorry for the other teams? That is a ridiculous argument. C’mon guys, be reasonable. Do you mean to tell me you would not do everything and anything within the rules to win?

And as far as absolution is concerned, there is nothing to absolve George of, since he has done nothing wrong.
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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:14 am

But will you agree that the rules are wrong? That one team shouldn't have a payroll 10 times higher than another team's payroll?

We need to fix this game or we will lose even more fans. What fun is it to be a Toronto or Devil Ray or Oriole fan anymore? You will never make the playoffs. You're playing for 3rd place.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:17 am

I'm a Sox fan. You have to give George credit for pumping almost all the money back into the team. But anything more is a joke.

George benefits from the biggest TV market in the country. His team gets some 100 million more in revenue than any other team. So he can spend as much as he wants, even over the luxury tax.

George isn't the problem; MLB is.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:20 am

KDOGG wrote:i'm glad to hear someone thats not a yankee fan agreeing with george and the rest of us in saying that other teams could do this type of thing as well.


No, other teams can't do this type of thing. Maybe 3 or 4, but basically, 25 can't. It's not George bashing, it's not NY bashing, it's simple economics.
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Postby GameOn » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:20 am

Haha I love hearing BoSox fans whine about how the Yanks are so succesful because of their TV market. That coming from a team who gets tons of money of their merchandise and crap, if you were rooting for the Devil Rays or something I might understand but its not like the Sox don't get publicity or anything.

I kinda like Steinbrenner, sure he spends a lot of money but hey its good for baseball. At least they win, thats something the Sox can't say.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:22 am

GameOn wrote:Haha I love hearing BoSox fans whine about how the Yanks are so succesful because of their TV market. That coming from a team who gets tons of money of their merchandise and crap, if you were rooting for the Devil Rays or something I might understand but its not like the Sox don't get publicity or anything.

I kinda like Steinbrenner, sure he spends a lot of money but hey its good for baseball. At least they win, thats something the Sox can't say.


This is twice you've said this. You seem to equate "a lot of TV money" with the same. YES, the Sox get a lot of money from TV, but NOTHING like NY. Do you think a difference of a $100 million is nothing? Jeesh.
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