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MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:11 am

Madison wrote:I'm saying "if" Barry broke the law, then the MLB has every right to do what they feel is necessary to send the message to the kids out there that just because someone is a superstar, that does not mean the laws do not apply to them. And I would believe somewhere in the MLB rulebook that there is a code of conduct of some sort. Worst case is most teams have such a policy.

So then the league would have to suspend everybody that's ever broken a law, then, right? Things like this Joba DUI would equate to a 10 game suspension or something like that? What about Tony La Russa falling asleep in his car while drunk? Stuff like this happens all the time.

Anyway, from what I can remember, I've never heard of the MLB doing anything like this. They don't have the authority to suspend a player simply because he broke a law. And the reason why I don't see it happening anytime soon is because pro baseball teams would wouldn't like it. The New York Yankees, for example, would hate losing Joba for 10 games due to something off-field related. Most teams likely have a conduct policy, but many don't choose to use it often, especially when it involves star players. And then there is the whole issue about getting it past the MLBPA.

So if Pacman should be suspended/kicked out/whatever for breaking the law, then I don't see how Barry is any different. Kill both or defend both, can't do one for one and not for the other.

Goodell wrote a "Personal Conduct Policy" in response to the Adam Jones' actions (and all those Bengals getting arrested). It allowed him to suspend those "engaging in violent and/or criminal activity" and it "constitutes conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League". It's quite a vague policy, really, but it allows him to suspend players that break the law. And as of right now, baseball doesn't have anything like that (and I'm not sure the MLBPA would ever let something like this happen in their league).

And again I should probably stress this point Madison, Barry Bonds is not a convicted criminal. Adam Jones is. That's another huge difference in their situations.

And baseball does not need a rule stating "don't break 'X' law". United States law overrides anything a business may or may not have in place. Heck, baseball could have done the opposite and point blank said that steroids were fine. The rub is that in the real world, those who used steroids would go to jail. So what baseball said or didn't say is 100% irrelevant to anything because United States law overrides anything little old baseball has to say.

The fact that steroids are illegal doesn't mean baseball has to suspend anybody for taking them. In fact, they chose not to for 20+ years. It took an entire John McCain-led committee and hearing for them to even begin thinking about doing so.


Disagree. We don't have any proof of that. Granted, we don't have proof a team would sell less tickets either, but it is a very valid point and certainly questionable. And I'm positive that teams did do the research to answer the question, but of course we don't have that information, so we cannot say one way or the other with any accuracy whatsoever.

Okay, but I just find it very hard to believe that LESS people would start going to games as a result of his presence.

First, there's the whole Barry Bonds "awe" factor. I would fall into that category. I've only seen Barry Bonds play once, and I think it would be a great experience to watch one of the greatest baseball players ever play in my city.

Then there is the enjoyment of booing Bonds with a huge crowd. That's what a majority of people came out to do in cities throughout 2006 and 2007. More people went to the games because of the sideshow he became.

And finally, the benefit of Bonds is that he would actually make a team better if put in the right situation (the DH role). A winning team equates to more fans coming out to the ballpark.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:17 am

To sum up my stance, if baseball ever wrote up a "Personal Conduct Policy" like football, and were able to get it past the MLBPA and the respective teams in their league, and Barry Bonds was actually convicted of a crime, then yeah, I'd have no problem with a suspension for him.

But as of right now, none of those things have happened.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Madison » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:17 pm

mweir145 wrote:They don't have the authority to suspend a player simply because he broke a law.


Business owners do have that right. It's also why most (if not all) teams have a code of conduct. Guys get benched for not hustling (or even miss games), so breaking the law would be a bit more important than that. Of course, we don't hear of it very often, but business owners do have the authority to do it if they choose.


Okay, but I just find it very hard to believe that LESS people would start going to games as a result of his presence.

First, there's the whole Barry Bonds "awe" factor. I would fall into that category. I've only seen Barry Bonds play once, and I think it would be a great experience to watch one of the greatest baseball players ever play in my city.

Then there is the enjoyment of booing Bonds with a huge crowd. That's what a majority of people came out to do in cities throughout 2006 and 2007. More people went to the games because of the sideshow he became.

And finally, the benefit of Bonds is that he would actually make a team better if put in the right situation (the DH role). A winning team equates to more fans coming out to the ballpark.


Barry and steroids gave baseball a pretty big black eye. I know people who quit watching and going to games because of it. How much was Barry and how much was steroids, I do not know, but that whole situation was not good for the game at all and like it or not, right or wrong, fair or not, Barry was the posterboy for the whole thing. It really would not surprise me in the least if the team research suggested that a team would sell less tickets if they signed Barry. Sure, some would go to a game simply to see him live and in person (I've never seen him play live, so I'd attend one game, but that's less than what I'd typically go to), but would that outweigh the amount of people who would boycott? I don't know, don't have access to that research, but I would not be surprised in the least if it showed a drop in attendance.

Oh, as to winning, sure, generally teams sell more tickets when they are winning. Not sure if that would counteract the loss of tickets from those who boycotted or not though. And note that not all teams sell more tickets when they win. Wasn't hard at all to get good Rays tickets this season, and they are now in the World Series (Congrats to the Rays and their fans ;-D ). Atlanta and Oakland are other examples of winning teams that were not filling stadiums. So winning doesn't guarantee more ticket sales, but generally that does hold true.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Yoda » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:40 pm

Madison, surely you do realize that MLB created Bonds? At least give credit where it is due.

When Sosa and McGwire were jacked on steroids breaking the HR record, where was Selig? There were plenty of rumors and speculations then but nothing was done. Why didn't they test? They were too busy counting all that cash with record breaking attendance and TV ratings. No one in MLB gave a crap as long as they got paid.

What about the MLBPA? Where were they to protect the players health and safety fully knowing that there was usage? Oh that's right. They were too busy watching players salaries go through the roof and swimming in all the dough.

What about every single player who took performance enhancers over 100+ years? Surely you can't just pick Bonds because he broke some stupid record. Those fringe guys who possibly would never even have made it by taking someone else's job. What about those guys? What about those guys who are already in HOF? Whether it was a spit ball or greenies or whatever, it is still cheating and some are illegal right?

Where were you when these things were going on? Did you question their integrity then or cheer these guys on?

So that brings us to Bonds. Boy, he is a really easy person to hate isn't he? He is arrogant. He is an elitist. He has a big chip on his shoulder. He alters the truth. Well what do you know, he is also black. Before you dispute this, answer this question. Is anyone giving nearly as much grief for Clemens? I think we all know the answer to that.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:16 am

Madison wrote:Business owners do have that right. It's also why most (if not all) teams have a code of conduct. Guys get benched for not hustling (or even miss games), so breaking the law would be a bit more important than that. Of course, we don't hear of it very often, but business owners do have the authority to do it if they choose.

I was referring to the league with that statement. Yeah, the teams could do it with their own conduct policies, but they often don't when it concerns star players. The issue here is that the business owners likely got together (or Selig told them to get together) and agreed not to sign Bonds. That's collusion and it's agaisnt the rules.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Madison » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:01 am

Yoda wrote:Madison, surely you do realize that MLB created Bonds? At least give credit where it is due.

When Sosa and McGwire were jacked on steroids breaking the HR record, where was Selig? There were plenty of rumors and speculations then but nothing was done. Why didn't they test? They were too busy counting all that cash with record breaking attendance and TV ratings. No one in MLB gave a crap as long as they got paid.

What about the MLBPA? Where were they to protect the players health and safety fully knowing that there was usage? Oh that's right. They were too busy watching players salaries go through the roof and swimming in all the dough.

What about every single player who took performance enhancers over 100+ years? Surely you can't just pick Bonds because he broke some stupid record. Those fringe guys who possibly would never even have made it by taking someone else's job. What about those guys? What about those guys who are already in HOF? Whether it was a spit ball or greenies or whatever, it is still cheating and some are illegal right?

Where were you when these things were going on? Did you question their integrity then or cheer these guys on?

So that brings us to Bonds. Boy, he is a really easy person to hate isn't he? He is arrogant. He is an elitist. He has a big chip on his shoulder. He alters the truth. Well what do you know, he is also black. Before you dispute this, answer this question. Is anyone giving nearly as much grief for Clemens? I think we all know the answer to that.


I really have no idea what this was all about. Can you dumb it down some and tell me what the point is/was, because I'm missing it, whatever it is. :-o

mweir145 wrote:The issue here is that the business owners likely got together (or Selig told them to get together) and agreed not to sign Bonds. That's collusion and it's agaisnt the rules.


"Likely" is stretching it quite a bit. We don't know for sure why no one signed Barry, there are plenty of aguments that can be made. You've taken the position that it was collusion, and that's fine as long as you know that you cannot say it for fact, just like I cannot say for fact that it wasn't collusion. Neither of us know what the real reason is/was.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:26 am

Madison wrote:"Likely" is stretching it quite a bit. We don't know for sure why no one signed Barry, there are plenty of aguments that can be made. You've taken the position that it was collusion, and that's fine as long as you know that you cannot say it for fact, just like I cannot say for fact that it wasn't collusion. Neither of us know what the real reason is/was.

The MLBPA wouldn't have taken up his case if they didn't have evidence of collusion.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Madison » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:42 am

mweir145 wrote:
Madison wrote:"Likely" is stretching it quite a bit. We don't know for sure why no one signed Barry, there are plenty of aguments that can be made. You've taken the position that it was collusion, and that's fine as long as you know that you cannot say it for fact, just like I cannot say for fact that it wasn't collusion. Neither of us know what the real reason is/was.

The MLBPA wouldn't have taken up his case if they didn't have evidence of collusion.


Umm...ok. :-b
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby mweir145 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:00 am

Madison wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Madison wrote:"Likely" is stretching it quite a bit. We don't know for sure why no one signed Barry, there are plenty of aguments that can be made. You've taken the position that it was collusion, and that's fine as long as you know that you cannot say it for fact, just like I cannot say for fact that it wasn't collusion. Neither of us know what the real reason is/was.

The MLBPA wouldn't have taken up his case if they didn't have evidence of collusion.


Umm...ok. :-b


Maybe you forgot what this thread was about:

NEW YORK -- The baseball players' union says it has found evidence teams acted in concert against signing Barry Bonds but it reached an agreement with the commissioner's office to delay the filing of any grievance.
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Re: MLBPA Says Teams Colluded Against Bonds

Postby Madison » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:24 am

mweir145 wrote:Maybe you forgot what this thread was about:

NEW YORK -- The baseball players' union says it has found evidence teams acted in concert against signing Barry Bonds but it reached an agreement with the commissioner's office to delay the filing of any grievance.


Nope, didn't forget, just found what you said humerous and not really worth the obvious point out. :-b
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