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2017 Commentary/Discussion

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2017 Commentary/Discussion

Postby mbuser » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:45 pm

I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on competitive tanking in the league. Cain set the precedent this season in terms of the full-season tank, most notably ending up 567 innings under the cap. Obviously it was completely within the rules, so I have no problem with him having done it, and it accomplished his desired purpose. But I feel very uneasy when I think about the prospect of two, three, or more teams in a heated chase to the bottom in seasons to come. (I'm envisioning combinations of NA players and empty roster spots.) I also have no idea how any kind of controls could be put in place, because the way around being forced to reach innings and games played marks would be to play bad players. I am thinking out loud here, but would like to hear some feedback from you guys if you have any.
Last edited by mbuser on Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby ggs » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:51 pm

happened in a few leagues i've been a part of and it definitely adds a wrinkle to keeper / dynasty leagues. on the one hand it's one way for teams to build for the future and find an in-road into the upper tier, on the other hand our current keeper rules (3 year toss back) builds in some natural attrition / cycling regardless. overall i don't mind it, especially given 1) our keeper rules and 2) the fact that it's a roto league, no direct h2h impact on other teams.
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby jimmy.impossible » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:55 am

I just wanted to be clear that I didn't actively tank the season. I was very active with free agency, trades and setting my lineup from day one until the end of the season.

That said, I did find very early on that my team for 2016 fantasy purposes was absolutely horrible so I made as many moves as I could to strengthen my team and give me options for next year and beyond. Sure, maybe that meant I floated a few more prospects than I should have given the keeper rules, but as I said, I wanted options heading into next year. To have the 7 best guys I could heading into the draft and making deals to acquire as many high draft picks as I could.

The biggest side effect with this strategy was, as you mentioned, my innings pitched as I rostered way more batters than pitchers. And many of my top pitchers dealt with season long injuries (eg. Zimmerman). Granted, given my position in the standings I never made any great strides to compensate for that as I was already well in last place as it was.

If that's tanking, then fine. But I would rather a manager who was actively trying to improve his team than one that never logged in the entire season.
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby TheRobSays » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:56 am

I think it is hard to manage what constitutes as "tanking" and the only way around this would be some form of draft lottery for the bottom 3-5 teams so everyone has a shot at the first pick. As my team fell off a cliff this year I will admit that I cared less about who pitched or played and more about the future - which means I essentially wasted a great year from Machado.

Since we are talking about this now I also think there should be a rule that no keepers from the prior year can be waived in the second half of the season. It sucks when guys waive players like Strasburg or in years past others (Tulo) who then do not hit FA. Or if these guys are waived they cannot be kept by others?
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:34 pm

mbuser wrote:I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on competitive tanking in the league. Cain set the precedent this season in terms of the full-season tank, most notably ending up 567 innings under the cap. Obviously it was completely within the rules, so I have no problem with him having done it, and it accomplished his desired purpose. But I feel very uneasy when I think about the prospect of two, three, or more teams in a heated chase to the bottom in seasons to come. (I'm envisioning combinations of NA players and empty roster spots.) I also have no idea how any kind of controls could be put in place, because the way around being forced to reach innings and games played marks would be to play bad players. I am thinking out loud here, but would like to hear some feedback from you guys if you have any.


Yahoo only does minimum inning limits in h2h leagues. ESPN allows you to set seasonal inning limits for roto leagues, which solves this problem.

As far as solving the issue and staying on yahoo, in my h2h keeper league (with the 3 year keeper policy also), our league rules state you must field an active lineup every week. We let owners trade players for picks, but every owner is expected to put 19 active players in their lineup every week. They don't have to be the best players, just players that are actually playing. Another good idea is a draft lottery, similar to basketball. That means tanking doesn't necessarily get you the top pick.
hook em horns, go stros
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby DVauthrin » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:41 pm

TheRobSays wrote:

Since we are talking about this now I also think there should be a rule that no keepers from the prior year can be waived in the second half of the season. It sucks when guys waive players like Strasburg or in years past others (Tulo) who then do not hit FA. Or if these guys are waived they cannot be kept by others?


I don't agree with this. If a player gets waived before his 3 years are up, his keeper clock gets reset. Now, i'll agree with you that the team that waived the player should be ineligible to keep him for the next season if they happen to pick him back up later in the year. No gaming the system so to speak. But when a past keeper gets waived, it's either due to poor performance or injury, and it's fair for the team shrewd enough to add him to keep him the next year and beyond if they so choose.
hook em horns, go stros
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby mbuser » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:17 pm

ggs, you make some good points. I guess I worry about the extreme making the league kinda cheesy. Agreed that the cyclical nature means we'll all be going through "the process" at some point. Maybe even Oleh

And jimmy, I did not think you were not actively managing your team this season, I knew that was not the case. And again, everything you did was well within the rules
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby LGLP86 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:03 pm

Very excited for the next season.

I feel like the lottery picks for the bottom feeders would be great to give a chance for re-build for the years to come.

You can also set limitations for waived keepers in the league to be set to 2 years or 1 year instead of a full reset to 3 years. This will prevent a team from future years and would require more planning on true keepers to come.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby The Thrill » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:10 pm

ggs wrote:happened in a few leagues i've been a part of and it definitely adds a wrinkle to keeper / dynasty leagues. on the one hand it's one way for teams to build for the future and find an in-road into the upper tier, on the other hand our current keeper rules (3 year toss back) builds in some natural attrition / cycling regardless. overall i don't mind it, especially given 1) our keeper rules and 2) the fact that it's a roto league, no direct h2h impact on other teams.


Sorry for the late reply. Read it initially and forgot to circle back on it. ggs summarizes my feelings, in general, as well. I guess there's risk it gets out of hand with multiple teams taking the approach, but if that ends up happening and we feel it's a problem for the league overall, we can adjust at that time. Not sure I see a need to adjust right now.

IMO, limiting the term on waived keepers is an intriguing idea LGLP86... I wouldn't mind hearing others opinion, but definitely interested.
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Re: Off-season discussion

Postby RedHopeful » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:18 pm

Sorry I'm so late to this party!

To be honest, I've never fully approved of any implemented solutions to counter tanking. I don't think there's much of a debate that in leagues similar to our size, it can affect the standings positively for some, negatively for others. That said, are minimums really a solution? Just as some past professional teams have decided to fill their rosters intentionally with below average personnel in order to improve their odds on landing the best future talent, why can't a fantasy team do the same? If you remove chances of improvement in the future, what's left to incentivize the managers of lowly teams?

Wish I had a better answer, but the status quo is probably still the way to go -- as long as the league remains filled with good quality managers who place an emphasis on the spirit of competition and don't throw in the towel on the entire roster until all hope is lost.
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