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Devalue Houston starters?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:57 am
by Mookie4ever
This time last year the Astros had Lidge pitching the 7th, Dotel the 8th and Wagner closing it out.

Lidge may be closer material but now what do they have before him?

Even though Oswalt went 8 last game, Jimy has a pretty quick hook with his starters. I see Miceli et al losing a few for the starters for the rest of the year - this bullpen is seriously depleted.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:00 am
by SaintsOfTheDiamond
They go from great to pretty much nothing IMO. I don't know if I would go so far as to devalue the Houston starters very much, the only thing that the bullpen would really screw up is wins, and maybe ERA if they let inherited runners score. They may have to let the starters go deeper in to games which could hurt long term perhaps but not much I wouldn't imagine. :-?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:13 am
by slomo007
I don't think the Astros are done dealing...but yeah, their bullpen (as of now) is weak. I have no plans to trade for Lidge, because I could see either Urbina or Guardado coming over in a trade, pushing him back into a setup role. Just something to think about for all you Lidge owners out there.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:24 am
by Mookie4ever
slomo007 wrote:I don't think the Astros are done dealing...but yeah, their bullpen (as of now) is weak. I have no plans to trade for Lidge, because I could see either Urbina or Guardado coming over in a trade, pushing him back into a setup role. Just something to think about for all you Lidge owners out there.


I disagree with this.

The 'stros are not done dealing but I don't think that it will be for a closer. I think that the job belongs to Lidge so long as he doesn't screw up (and he is doing fine so far) but that they will want to bring in some set up men. These are cheaper and easier to find.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:27 am
by slomo007
Mookie4ever wrote:
slomo007 wrote:I don't think the Astros are done dealing...but yeah, their bullpen (as of now) is weak. I have no plans to trade for Lidge, because I could see either Urbina or Guardado coming over in a trade, pushing him back into a setup role. Just something to think about for all you Lidge owners out there.


I disagree with this.

The 'stros are not done dealing but I don't think that it will be for a closer. I think that the job belongs to Lidge so long as he doesn't screw up (and he is doing fine so far) but that they will want to bring in some set up men. These are cheaper and easier to find.


What setup guys are available though? Rhodes possibly...but he's hurt right now and the A's actually need him anyways. Williamson, but I don't know if the Red Sox are willing to part with him. Graves is a possibility if the Reds fall out of contention, but I don't see him being traded intra division.

Unless there is someone else I'm not thinking of, I don't know of any possibilities besides Urbina or Guardado. Mota is obviously off-limits as well if they wouldn't even take Beltran for him. 8-o

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:55 pm
by Arlo
I think the Astros will be looking at less familiar names, at least at first. Luis Vizcaino might be a possibility, for example.

Incidentally, don't overlook the addition of Beltran when evaluating Houston starters. Both his offense and, as we've seen, his defense will help.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:57 pm
by thehat
Any loss derived from a shorter bullpen is clearly offset by increased offense with Beltran in the lineup.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:27 pm
by warrick95
slomo007 wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
slomo007 wrote:I don't think the Astros are done dealing...but yeah, their bullpen (as of now) is weak. I have no plans to trade for Lidge, because I could see either Urbina or Guardado coming over in a trade, pushing him back into a setup role. Just something to think about for all you Lidge owners out there.


I disagree with this.

The 'stros are not done dealing but I don't think that it will be for a closer. I think that the job belongs to Lidge so long as he doesn't screw up (and he is doing fine so far) but that they will want to bring in some set up men. These are cheaper and easier to find.


What setup guys are available though? Rhodes possibly...but he's hurt right now and the A's actually need him anyways. Williamson, but I don't know if the Red Sox are willing to part with him. Graves is a possibility if the Reds fall out of contention, but I don't see him being traded intra division.

Unless there is someone else I'm not thinking of, I don't know of any possibilities besides Urbina or Guardado. Mota is obviously off-limits as well if they wouldn't even take Beltran for him. 8-o


I wouldn't mind Marte to Houston. ;-)

In all seriousness, he's right. The big names are closers. Many setup men in the league are guys who are waiting to close and have high upside (young and cheap, like Mota). Teams don't want to trade them.

Mantei is a possibility, if they get really desperate. I know Arizona would love to get rid of him with Bruney and Valverde waiting in the wings, but Mantei hasn't done a good job at all selling himself this year.

What about Percy? Are the Angels loyal enough to keep him, or just trade him and let the very capable K-Rod close. Donnelly is back, so their bullpen is a bit deeper than it was earlier on in the year.

I really believe that Houston would prefer to have the veteran closer than Lidge this year if they're putting it all on the line (and it appears like they are). They want somebody with more mental toughness and experience, even if Lidge has been lights out thus far.

Might Looper get moved? Graves sounds feasible, but not intradivision, like you said. What about Danys Baez? Would a team like Houston take him? Does Tampa feel secure about moving him, even with nothing beyond Jesus Colome and Lance Carter closing? Carter is a possibility if Houston wants him, come to think of it.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:20 pm
by Super GM
I wouldn't be suprised if they move Shields....