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TRUE 5-category players. Let's try this debate again.

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Postby funatic » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:40 pm

LBJackal wrote:On a sidenote..... did anyone else realize that Beltre's .337 BA this year helped fantasy teams more in the BA category than Barry Bonds' .364 BA? And having Ichiro at .373 would help your team in BA more than having both Barry Bonds and Adrian Beltre!


Wow... 8-o 8-o 8-o
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Postby LCBOY » Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:04 pm

Here's an article that defines a "five-tool" player. The article is old (1999) but it makes some good points.

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/sports2000/players/151063.html

The term "5-tool player" is a term used by traditional scouts. Here a quote from the above link.


For the record, the five tools are 1) hitting for average, 2) hitting for power, 3) running speed, 4) arm strength and 5) fielding ability. A current list of five-tool players is a who's who of baseball's best-Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez, to name three. Five-tool players get the key hits, big home runs, timely stolen bases, they throw out the tying run at the plate and make spectacular defensive plays.


I believe that sabermetricians have a "7-skill" list but I don't know it off the top of my head...
Last edited by LCBOY on Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LCBOY » Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:07 pm

I have a question:

Is this thread about "five-tool" players or "five-category" players? The terms do not mean the same thing.


A "Five tool" plaeyer refers to:

1) hitting for average
2) hitting for power
3) running speed
4) arm strength
5) fielding ability.


A "five-cat" player refers to a player that score well in a roto format:

1) Avg.
2) HR
3) Runs
4) RBI
5) SB
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Postby Baseballer02 » Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:38 pm

Read through the thread where it's clarified we mean 5-cat players.
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Postby wrveres » Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:25 am

very interesting read .....

as far as 5 Category ....
I think Mookie is right, that it depends upon the league
In normal 12 team mixed 5x5, which everything is mostly based upon anyways

.. I think it is somewhere around ..
.278 BA
22 Homers
88-89 Runs
88-89 Rbis
and 12 SB's ... is the plateau ...

Remember, fantasy baseball is soley about numbers, and in order to be a player that truly 'helps' you in 5 categories, they must exceed that level in every category . I'm sure somebody would be happy to run the numbers and see who qualified for this season. I know we talked about it in the spring, and even came up with a list based upon projections.

As for Beltran ..
what makes him so valuable is his speed. PERIOD!
without that speed, he is just another above average outfielder, drafted in the 5th through 10th rounds (again 12 tm 5x5) ...
Speed is truly a specialty in our game because there are only a limitd amount of players who can 'help' you there. I think the fact that he not only produces that speed, along with the power allows you to look past a sub .270 BA.
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Postby LBJackal » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:10 am

Agreed. He puts up power numbers like Helton... except with 40 more SB's. He's a top OF even without the SB's, but those ~50 SB's count for a LOT. There's nobody I'd rather have in a keeper ;-D
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Postby great gretzky » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:07 am

hmm I have to question the assesment that it is beltran's speed that makes him so valuable. well obvisouly, that is the draw, but without them, he is still a aqaulity power option...

120 runs, 38 hr's, 104 rbi is not exactly chopped liver. Without the sb's I would still draft him in rounds 3 or 4 depending.

top five in runs scored, top 12 in home runs, top 25 in rbi.

those are pretty damn good stats without the stolen bases.
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Postby Pokey » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:22 am

while we're talking about 5-category players, as a Red Sox fan I feel obligated to point out what an incredibly well rounded season Johnny Damon has had...

.304 AVG- 20 HR- 93 RBI- 123 R- 19 SB
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Postby wkelly91 » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:10 pm

Could he be the surpise next year?

He will be 26 next year...

"04"

.299-77-15-71-20

"after break"

.326-45-11-41-9

SSSHHHH

Coco Crisp B-)
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Postby Arlo » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:27 pm

wrveres wrote:I'm sure somebody would be happy to run the numbers and see who qualified for this season. I know we talked about it in the spring, and even came up with a list based upon projections.

(My threshold might be different from yours):

Guerrero
Abreu
A. Rodriguez
Mora
Drew
Lee
M. Young

Hmm ... this might make a good article...
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