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Postby josebach » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:03 am

wrveres wrote:
josebach wrote:You don't think steroids help baseball players?

Ever hear of a guy called Ken Caminiti?


On the other hand, In order to believe that Barry did roids, using the widely misplaced logic of the masses, I have to believe that Barry took them from 1998 till now.


Barry Bonds testified in a grand jury about his involvement with Balco and illegal steroids. I would hardly call any logic that somewhat uses to conclude that Bonds was on steroids "widely misplaced". Granted, it's not been proven yet and until it has, you won't hear me say Bonds took them.

I just get tired of people saying "steroids doesn't help you hit a baseball". In my opinion it's not up for debate. Everybody knows steroids helps you build strength and muscle. Stength increases bat speed accleration which lets the hitter wait longer to identify a pitch before he swings. Strengh will also allow you swing a heavier bat which will in turn make the ball go further. How can anyone debate this and say steroids doesn't help in baseball... regardless as to who took them or not?

For someone to say taking steroids doesn't help a baseball player is the same thing as saying being strong doesn't help a baseball player. It's ridiculous.
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Postby great gretzky » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:25 am

steroids most definitely help. not only do they help with the obvious power, but they help recovery time from injuries. Also, while it is true that they don't help you "see" the ball if you are stronger, you can swing the bat faster and correct for mistakes.
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Postby DK » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:34 am

Forgive me for asking, I don't claim to be a steroid expert but:

If steroids bulk up your muscles, wouldn't it slow you down? You have more weight to carry, which means less speed, after all. I mean, Russian weight-lifters aren't Olympic sprinters. It might give you more power, but faster bat speed? I doubt it.
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Postby frog99 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:00 am

who said bonds still isn't taking steriods? With of of the cloaking agents and modern drugs steriods only appear in tests for a short window of time. That is the IOC (with extremly strict test standards) misses atheles several times before they catch them, if they catch them at all. So with the tests as infreuquent as they are in MLB players could easily slip through.
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Postby barry4prez » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:56 am

Steroids don't help your eye or your baseball IQ. Steroids may add 15 feet to your homers, but Bonds routinely hits them out by 50-75 feet. Bonds wouldn't be so stupid to use roids, when he was already a lock for the HOF before he supposedly bulked up. Bonds' power numbers are pretty even across the board, except for the fluke 2001 season (HINT: IT'S CALLED A CAREER YEAR!). Read wveres' post: Bonds had torn muscles in his arm during the time when he allegedly began using...steroids have to be taken in conjunction with working out to have their full effect...after his surgery, there's no way he could have been using (also in his post he discusses Bonds' knee injury, which forced him to work his upper body more to compensate while he didn't have full use of his legs.

We live in America. Bonds is innocent until proven guilty.
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Postby josebach » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:59 am

DK wrote:Forgive me for asking, I don't claim to be a steroid expert but:

If steroids bulk up your muscles, wouldn't it slow you down? You have more weight to carry, which means less speed, after all. I mean, Russian weight-lifters aren't Olympic sprinters. It might give you more power, but faster bat speed? I doubt it.


Steroids make it easier to build muscle. How you exercise your muscles determine how those muscles build. Where granted, Russian weight-lifters aren't Olympic sprinters, Olympic sprinters ARE Olympic sprinters, and anybody that's watched the news the last month knows there is a HUGE problem with steroids in track and field right now.

It's not just faster bat speed although that's part of it.

There are 3 possible advantages a hitter might gain from adding muscle.
1) Increased maximum bat speed - Results: ball travels further
2) Time to reach maximum bat speed is reduced (Explosiveness) - Results: batter can start swing later
3) Batter can swing heavier bat - Results: ball travels further

This doesn't even include the mental edge that it brings to a player's game... a edge that Caminiti thought to be very significant.
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Postby josebach » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:10 pm

barry4prez wrote:Steroids don't help your eye or your baseball IQ. Steroids may add 15 feet to your homers, but Bonds routinely hits them out by 50-75 feet.


Oh brother. Here we go again.

The difference isn't how much distance it adds. It's the difference between hitting the ball on the meat of the bat and not. Hudredths of a second is the difference between a home run or a ground ball back to the pitcher.

It amazes me that people still argue that steroids don't help baseball players hit. I guess that baseball is the only sport in the history of sports where strength doesn't matter.

I'm done responding to these steroid posts. My head's killing me.
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Postby Nomar4prez » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:58 pm

josebach wrote:
DK wrote:Forgive me for asking, I don't claim to be a steroid expert but:

If steroids bulk up your muscles, wouldn't it slow you down? You have more weight to carry, which means less speed, after all. I mean, Russian weight-lifters aren't Olympic sprinters. It might give you more power, but faster bat speed? I doubt it.


Steroids make it easier to build muscle. How you exercise your muscles determine how those muscles build. Where granted, Russian weight-lifters aren't Olympic sprinters, Olympic sprinters ARE Olympic sprinters, and anybody that's watched the news the last month knows there is a HUGE problem with steroids in track and field right now.

It's not just faster bat speed although that's part of it.

There are 3 possible advantages a hitter might gain from adding muscle.
1) Increased maximum bat speed - Results: ball travels further
2) Time to reach maximum bat speed is reduced (Explosiveness) - Results: batter can start swing later
3) Batter can swing heavier bat - Results: ball travels further

This doesn't even include the mental edge that it brings to a player's game... a edge that Caminiti thought to be very significant.


Swinging a heavier bat won't make the ball go farther unless you have the same bat speed, which is unlikely. F=MA. The heavier the bat, the less acceleration.

Steroid's don't help you THAT much in baseball. It won't make a decent player, a great player. The only thing it could do is make a great player even greater. Let's say Bonds is on 'roids...would he suck if he wasn't on them? NO, he'd be just as dominant as he is now. And strength can help a player, but it's more about bat speed, and hand-eye coordination. Look at Miguel Cabrera. He looks like he's 15, but he can hit over 30 homeruns in a season.
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Postby josebach » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:10 pm

Nomar4prez wrote:Swinging a heavier bat won't make the ball go farther unless you have the same bat speed


No kidding.

*shoots self in head*
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Postby sowapowa » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:14 pm

jose you are completely wrong.

Roids let you do two things: train harder and train longer. It gives a boost in testosterone and there is a fast recouperating agent as well. Roids also help you get past a mental barrier where you believe you can do more than what your body can actually do. This is why so many roid users are constantly getting hurt. They overwork their body and strain it.

increased muscle mass does not mean you can swing the bat faster.

im sorry i do not believe barry ever used roids. i mean look at his strikeout total. Its pretty much non existant. Roids increase testosterone and it also helps you recouperate. Increased testosterone makes you aggressive. Caminiti fits in this case because he struck out like 150+ times a year right? Sammy sosa fits cuz he strikes out 120+ times a year right? giambi fits as well but barry bonds does not fit this mold.

Why would willie mays, argueably the best player of all time, stand by barry's side if he cheats?

The number one thing a batter needs in order to hit home runs is not muscle mass; its skill, contact, eye coordination or whatever you want to call it. If you hit the ball squarely, it doesnt matter if you are thin or strong, you will hit the ball far.

i mean if muscle mass really mattered, why wouldnt draft picks with higher weight and higher muscle mass to fat ratio be valued more? Baseball is a skill sport.
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