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Re: re

Postby josebach » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:53 pm

I wasn't going to post anymore about this subject, but I was motivated by how baffled I've become at the incredible lack of common sense that some people have.

sowapowa wrote:jose you are completely wrong.

Thanks for letting me know. Maybe you should let all the major league players know so that they don't waste any more time weight training.

sowapowa wrote:Roids let you do two things: train harder and train longer. It gives a boost in testosterone and there is a fast recouperating agent as well. Roids also help you get past a mental barrier where you believe you can do more than what your body can actually do. This is why so many roid users are constantly getting hurt. They overwork their body and strain it.

Steroids allow a person to get stronger than would otherwise be possible. The body was not designed to accomodate this unnatural strength and breaks down.

sowapowa wrote:increased muscle mass does not mean you can swing the bat faster.

So a hundred pound guy can swing a bat as fast as a two hundred pound guy? The same size bat? Sorry, I didn't know that.

sowapowa wrote:im sorry i do not believe barry ever used roids. i mean look at his strikeout total. Its pretty much non existant. Roids increase testosterone and it also helps you recouperate. Increased testosterone makes you aggressive. Caminiti fits in this case because he struck out like 150+ times a year right? Sammy sosa fits cuz he strikes out 120+ times a year right? giambi fits as well but barry bonds does not fit this mold.

You lost me. What's your point here?

sowapowa wrote:Why would willie mays, argueably the best player of all time, stand by barry's side if he cheats?

If your son/god son was doing something wrong or illegal, would you turn him in?

sowapowa wrote:The number one thing a batter needs in order to hit home runs is not muscle mass; its skill, contact, eye coordination or whatever you want to call it. If you hit the ball squarely, it doesnt matter if you are thin or strong, you will hit the ball far.

So you're saying a 10 year old girl can hit a ball as far as a grown man as long as she hits it squarely. :-b

sowapowa wrote:i mean if muscle mass really mattered, why wouldnt draft picks with higher weight and higher muscle mass to fat ratio be valued more? Baseball is a skill sport.

Size is one of the most important tools that professional scouts look for. You saying this is only informing everyone of your limited baseball knowledge.
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Postby LCBOY » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:02 pm

rjforlife wrote:
Nomar4prez wrote:
BigMusky wrote:you do not think steroids have anything to do with baseball?

If Overbay was on the juice, all those doubles would be homers and he would be one of the best players in the league. Bonds would also be a shadow of the player he is today.


I think less than 5-6% used steroids, and they were all no names, or not superstars.



what about camminitti (sp?) he admitted to using roids the year he won the MVP......MVP's arent no names and it clearly had an impact.


Ntt true. Take a look at all the MVPs going back to 1931 and there are planety on "no-names" amongst HoFers. For every Mantle, Bonds, Schmidt, there are the Terry Pendletons, Dick Groats and Hank Sauers, and Bob Elliots of the baseball world...
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re

Postby sowapowa » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:18 pm

yes a hundred pound guy can swing a bat the same speed as a two hundred pound guy.

The point of taking consideration of strikeouts is that steroids increase testosterone which increase aggression; therefore, it would make sense to look as one of the possible critereon for possible steroid usuage given no definitive evidence.

Willie Mays is the godfather of barry bonds as you stated. what is the purpose of a godfather - to protect his god son right? How is he protecting barry by letting him use steroids then? I do believe there is a thing called honor as well. If barry used, i believe willie mays would do the right thing and not support something that could blemish the sport that he has loved his entire life.

You didnt say size. You said muscle mass. Why not draft a 5'5" powerlifter? How many muscle bound propects can you name?
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Re: re

Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:23 pm

sowapowa wrote:The point of taking consideration of strikeouts is that steroids increase testosterone which increase aggression; therefore, it would make sense to look as one of the possible critereon for possible steroid usuage given no definitive evidence.


Are you saying angry guys strike out more?

Ty Cobb 11,434 AB 357 Stirke outs (just an example)
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Re: re

Postby josebach » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:36 pm

sowapowa wrote:yes a hundred pound guy can swing a bat the same speed as a two hundred pound guy.

The point of taking consideration of strikeouts is that steroids increase testosterone which increase aggression; therefore, it would make sense to look as one of the possible critereon for possible steroid usuage given no definitive evidence.

Willie Mays is the godfather of barry bonds as you stated. what is the purpose of a godfather - to protect his god son right? How is he protecting barry by letting him use steroids then? I do believe there is a thing called honor as well. If barry used, i believe willie mays would do the right thing and not support something that could blemish the sport that he has loved his entire life.

You didnt say size. You said muscle mass. Why not draft a 5'5" powerlifter? How many muscle bound propects can you name?


You just confirmed what I suspected in your last post. I'm sorry, but I can't respond to your posts any further because to post what I'm thinking would be against forum rules.

Before I go, I posted some links for your reading pleasure:

"But former home run champion Mark McGwire and his bosom buddy (and steroid enhanced) partner Jose Conseco did believe. They pursued weight programs beginning in the 1980s with a vengeance, with McGwire in particular making use of every technological edge he could find to make his swing more compact, faster and more powerful."

http://www.techcentralstation.com/041403D.html

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_75308165
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:41 pm

This lack of intellingence in this forum amazes me.

Strength is not the only part of bat speed, but it definitely is an important part. Obviously, if you have STRONGER fast-twitch muscles, and are quicker, you can swing a bat faster, which gives you more power.

Saying that a 200-pound guy can swing a bat the same speed as a 100-pound guy is ludicrous, unless the 200-pound guy is all fat and the 100-pound guy is all muscle.

Roids give a person aggreesion, but I doubt that that aggression can be measured in Ks or even BB/K ratio. If you want to measure aggreesion, look at fights with teammates or AB/# of charges to mound :-D .

Also, steroids
Give people more confidence in physical ability
Easier to recover from DAY-to-DAY wear and tear, therefore more AB at full strength.
Make people quicker if speed exercises are done with steroids
Enables faster bat speed, which makes it easier to be a "smart" hitter and see the ball better.
Add power to a swing. Strength obviously adds power. Hint: Hitter use their legs as part of their swing. The legs are the strongest part of the body. If people's arms were stronger than their legs, u would see swings with no steps, and just arm flicks.


OK, done Ranting! }:-)
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Postby josebach » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:53 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:This lack of intellingence in this forum amazes me.

Strength is not the only part of bat speed, but it definitely is an important part. Obviously, if you have STRONGER fast-twitch muscles, and are quicker, you can swing a bat faster, which gives you more power.

Saying that a 200-pound guy can swing a bat the same speed as a 100-pound guy is ludicrous, unless the 200-pound guy is all fat and the 100-pound guy is all muscle.

Roids give a person aggreesion, but I doubt that that aggression can be measured in Ks or even BB/K ratio. If you want to measure aggreesion, look at fights with teammates or AB/# of charges to mound :-D .

Also, steroids
Give people more confidence in physical ability
Easier to recover from DAY-to-DAY wear and tear, therefore more AB at full strength.
Make people quicker if speed exercises are done with steroids
Enables faster bat speed, which makes it easier to be a "smart" hitter and see the ball better.
Add power to a swing. Strength obviously adds power. Hint: Hitter use their legs as part of their swing. The legs are the strongest part of the body. If people's arms were stronger than their legs, u would see swings with no steps, and just arm flicks.


OK, done Ranting! }:-)


I've tried. Don't waste your breath. My head is severely bruised and bloodied from beating it up against a brick wall. No sense in us both getting concussions. !+)
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Postby Nomar4prez » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:16 pm

josebach wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:This lack of intellingence in this forum amazes me.

Strength is not the only part of bat speed, but it definitely is an important part. Obviously, if you have STRONGER fast-twitch muscles, and are quicker, you can swing a bat faster, which gives you more power.

Saying that a 200-pound guy can swing a bat the same speed as a 100-pound guy is ludicrous, unless the 200-pound guy is all fat and the 100-pound guy is all muscle.

Roids give a person aggreesion, but I doubt that that aggression can be measured in Ks or even BB/K ratio. If you want to measure aggreesion, look at fights with teammates or AB/# of charges to mound :-D .

Also, steroids
Give people more confidence in physical ability
Easier to recover from DAY-to-DAY wear and tear, therefore more AB at full strength.
Make people quicker if speed exercises are done with steroids
Enables faster bat speed, which makes it easier to be a "smart" hitter and see the ball better.
Add power to a swing. Strength obviously adds power. Hint: Hitter use their legs as part of their swing. The legs are the strongest part of the body. If people's arms were stronger than their legs, u would see swings with no steps, and just arm flicks.


OK, done Ranting! }:-)


I've tried. Don't waste your breath. My head is severely bruised and bloodied from beating it up against a brick wall. No sense in us both getting concussions. !+)


Ok, but if someone works out 3-4 hours a day EVERYDAY, are steroids going to make him that much bigger...considering he's working out the same amount of time? People think that athletes just take steroids, and they magically get stronger. MLB players work out more than we could ever imagine(exclude Colon, and Ponson from this discussion), and I don't see why you want to risk your life to add another 5-10 feet to the length of your hit. Now, Bonds CRUSHES balls over the fence. His ability to see the pitch, and realize what it is, and if he should swing is amazing. If he is on steroids, I think he'd still be the best player in the game without them.

I could be wrong, but I thought that steroids didn't help you build fast-twitch muscles.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:31 pm

Steroids can have a wide range of uses, it depends on the workout used in conjunction with them. I am not saying that Barry would nto be a great player with/without steroids. They won't make a guy that much bigger or quicker, but the difference between a HR and a K is about .1 seconds. Baseball is such a fast game when there is action, that just a little quickness can mean a lot more production.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:58 pm

About Barry and the 73 homer year, and the career year, can you name one other player who had a career year at 37? People usually dont get better as they get older. Oh and Im not saying Barry wouldn't be great if he wasn't bombing these home runs, he was a 40/40 guy at one time. Oh and people will risk their lives for the extra 10 feet if it means a couple extra million dollars a year. You ever seen Fear Factor? See what those people do for 50 grand?
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