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Who is the next Japanese star?

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Postby Jivedude » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:42 pm

Maybe Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes? :-D
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Postby joshheines » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:53 am

DMXdawg wrote:Cause asians actually compete with American firepower?

What happened to that taiwanese slugger for the rockies, he disappeared, and nomo has been a bust this year. Hideki is all right, and shingo has been deceptive so far but he'll be figured out soon.

and bruce chen? he was a big prospect wasn't he, he fizzled out unlike other former american prospects like randy johnson and mark prior and nolan ryan.

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I hate to burst your bubble and the small world you live in, but Bruce Chen is not a by product of an Asian country. Bruce Chen is actually from Panama.
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:05 am

DMXdawg wrote:Bruce Chen still has asian genes. Japanese players are worse off period. For every decent japanese player there are at least five good american players. Japanese and asian players are weak.


Damn you're awfully ignorant for somebody who tries to come off as so intelligent. There are tons of great Asian players, but they're all in Asia. Ichiro won the MVP, Godzilla has been pretty damn good, Kaz hasn't been that bad, Takatsu has been good. If your argument that Asians suck at baseball is because there aren't many stars in MLB, then couldn't Asians say that Americans suck since they have no stars in the Japanese Baseball League?

BTW, aren't you Vietnamese or something? You've done a pretty good job of tarnishing your rep anyway, regardless of race.
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Postby cafe_58 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:22 am

LBJackal wrote:
DMXdawg wrote:Bruce Chen still has asian genes. Japanese players are worse off period. For every decent japanese player there are at least five good american players. Japanese and asian players are weak.


Damn you're awfully ignorant for somebody who tries to come off as so intelligent. There are tons of great Asian players, but they're all in Asia. Ichiro won the MVP, Godzilla has been pretty damn good, Kaz hasn't been that bad, Takatsu has been good. If your argument that Asians suck at baseball is because there aren't many stars in MLB, then couldn't Asians say that Americans suck since they have no stars in the Japanese Baseball League?

BTW, aren't you Vietnamese or something? You've done a pretty good job of tarnishing your rep anyway, regardless of race.


So true. There are some Ichiros and there are some Shingos. There are some Barry Bonds and there are some bad/medicore American players.
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Postby stumpak » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:10 pm

Please, Japanese baseball does not compare to MLB, a guy like Thome or ARod would put up softball beer league type numbers in Japan. If you have ever watched a Japanese game, the players are shockingly small, and the simple fact is that ON AVERAGE bigger and stronger MLB players will hit and pitch the ball harder than some guy who is 5'10"/170, although obiviously there are exceptions to this (i.e. Pedro Martinez).

Few Japanese stars have translated successfully to MLB, if you measure success by meeting hype and expectation. While there have a smattering of successes (Sasaki, Ichiro, Nomo) there have been a lot more busts, or if not busts, guys like Ishii who have are nothing better than decent big leaguers and nothign write home about. I realize that Japanese imports to date do not comprise the totality of Japan's best players, and that there are lots of guys who could at least make big league rosters, but by and large Japanese imports are over-hyped and high-risk from a purely perspective.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:25 pm

In Japanese baseball, there are also loads of unwritten rules. For instance, it is not "correct" to takeout slide into second base. There are also small unwritten rules that may contribute to their lack of size, etc.
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Postby perlick29 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:41 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:In Japanese baseball, there are also loads of unwritten rules. For instance, it is not "correct" to takeout slide into second base. There are also small unwritten rules that may contribute to their lack of size, etc.


I've heard of this. It is also not "correct" to make a backhanded play in Japan, which was a big reason Matsui's defense was so bad at times during the first half, because he was fighting the urge to make a backhanded play. But now he is playing a bit more American style.

I think there are plenty of excellent ballplayers in Japan. Some come over some do not. I don't pay attention to the hype that surrounds these guys, like Irabu when he came over. All that matters to me is results. And Akinori Otsuka undebatebly is putting up very good numbers for a set up man, just as Baseball Prospectus predicted he would. In Japan he averaged just under 10k's per 9. This year he's at just over 9k's per 9 with an era of 2.44 and whip of 1.05. Those are numbers that he put up in Japan as well, so he was a player that translated well into American Ball.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:53 pm

stumpak wrote:Please, Japanese baseball does not compare to MLB, a guy like Thome or ARod would put up softball beer league type numbers in Japan. If you have ever watched a Japanese game, the players are shockingly small, and the simple fact is that ON AVERAGE bigger and stronger MLB players will hit and pitch the ball harder than some guy who is 5'10"/170, although obiviously there are exceptions to this (i.e. Pedro Martinez).

Few Japanese stars have translated successfully to MLB, if you measure success by meeting hype and expectation. While there have a smattering of successes (Sasaki, Ichiro, Nomo) there have been a lot more busts, or if not busts, guys like Ishii who have are nothing better than decent big leaguers and nothign write home about. I realize that Japanese imports to date do not comprise the totality of Japan's best players, and that there are lots of guys who could at least make big league rosters, but by and large Japanese imports are over-hyped and high-risk from a purely perspective.


some of what you say is true. the japanese league does not compare to the major leagues. i am not sure that any one insinuated that it was. regardless, it doesnt preclude a japanese player coming to mlb and doing well.


i dont measure success by meeting hype, something generally developed by sports writers who never saw the person play or have little in the way of scouting abilities. i think if someone is a mlb regular then thats a success but thats just my opinion. sure there are busts from japan but arent there also just as many if not more domestic busts? how many first round draft picks failed to live up to expectations? how many times has a draft day bonus been wasted? seems a bit unfair to just focus on the domestic successes (like a-rod and thome) and on the foreign failures.
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Postby stumpak » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:01 pm

I agree with that--the point I am making is from a fantasy perspective. Most Japanese imports will not be high performers--they are through no fault of their own overhyped by a baseball media that has nothing else to report on during the offseason. I am just saying that there is danger in believing that hype--I would prefer to stay away and let someone else be the sucker that takes Little Matsui in the 3rd round.
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Postby perlick29 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:03 pm

stumpak wrote:I agree with that--the point I am making is from a fantasy perspective. Most Japanese imports will not be high performers--they are through no fault of their own overhyped by a baseball media that has nothing else to report on during the offseason. I am just saying that there is danger in believing that hype--I would prefer to stay away and let someone else be the sucker that takes Little Matsui in the 3rd round.


I think the main point I've been making throughout this debate is to always listen to Baseball Prospectus for which Japanaese imports have a real shot at making an impact. They were on the money with Otsuka.
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