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Postby ocmusicjunkie » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:08 am

Wow. I can tell Viper is one of those "look at the stats. Only the stats. I don't care what sort of stuff/potential the guy has" fantasy guys.

He's 20. TWENTY. Rich freaking Harden has more than two years on this kid. What did you think, Kaz was going to come up and throw no hitters his first three games?
Help please:
http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1086524#1086524


Harden- 2.15 ERA, 7.61 K/9
Peavy - 2.89 ERA, 10.10 K/9

[b]Lets go Rich![/b]
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Postby hybrid » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:10 am

I thought it was obvious what it meant. It means that 99% of any 20 year old players aren't ready to play in the majors, especially pitchers.

Yeah and had a good 1st start, so what? Lots of pitchers have good 1st starts cause no one has seen them yet. Saying he was ready after his 1st start, is like saying he is a bum after his last couple of starts.
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:15 am

So what? Did you read all the articles where the Mets got torched after that outing?
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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Postby hybrid » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:30 am

lol Their just sports articles, a lot by writers who aren't that good in the first place. Just cause they made a big deal out of it, doesn't mean it should of been one.
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Postby Viper8437 » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:44 am

ocmusicjunkie wrote:Wow. I can tell Viper is one of those "look at the stats. Only the stats. I don't care what sort of stuff/potential the guy has" fantasy guys.

He's 20. TWENTY. Rich freaking Harden has more than two years on this kid. What did you think, Kaz was going to come up and throw no hitters his first three games?


No im one of those people who get pissed off at some peoples reactions

The day they made the trade, the Mets got bashed by so many fans
but still had the support of broadcasters
but then after Kazmirs first start, and keep in mind it was against Seattle, and he did pretty good
everyone bashed the Mets, even broadcasters, sayign that the Mets made a bad move, that Zamir was ready, and that the Mets would pay
But then after he pitches the next two games, and at the same time making Loaiza look good, everyone shut ups
no one says they were wrong
this kid isnt ready
the Mets don't want to wait so long for a prospect who may be good
and don't forget Kazmir was only good in AA, not even AAA

they helped set themselves up for next year
Amazins seems to know what im talking about
reyes is my homeboy
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Postby pbeall100281 » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:21 am

Overall the Mets seem to make horrible personnel decisions. Will this team ever be successful in NY?
Wisdom can give you direction, emotion gets you there. - Jim Rohn
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Postby Viper8437 » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:28 am

so since the mets make a few horrible decisions
all theyre future decisions are horrible?
nice reasoning there ;-D
reyes is my homeboy
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:29 am

pbeall100281 wrote:Overall the Mets seem to make horrible personnel decisions. Will this team ever be successful in NY?

The Mets have won 2 championships in 42 years. The Cubs have won two championships in 101 years. Will the Cubs ever be successful in Chicago? Maybe they should move to New Jersey. You know they'd fit in ... the smell and all. :-D
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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Postby thehat » Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:45 am

Everyone is saying the Mets made a bad deal because they made a bad deal. It's as simple as this. You do not trade away an acclaimed top prospect for a sore armed (and this was already known prior to the deal) marginal vet who is arbitration eligible.

It's similar to a fantasy owner having drafted Adrian Beltre in the first round this year. Even though Beltre has produced first round numbers, using a first round choice on him prior to the season would have been a miserable move, because there's absolutely no question you could have gotten Beltre later.

It's the same thing here. Even if Victor Zambrano turns into the next Tom Seaver (yeah, right) the Mets could have gotten him cheaper than they did...as TB wanted to deal the guy and would have settled for far less than a top prospect. Making this deal was a stunningly poor move by Du(fus)quette, even by his lowly standards.

And as for Kazmir, he's basically up for a taste. The D-Rays want to see how he handles a bit of adversity, as his lack of maturity has been brought up by some scouts. Making any kind of judgment on him based on his few efforts here is silly.
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:36 am

thehat wrote:Everyone is saying the Mets made a bad deal because they made a bad deal. It's as simple as this. You do not trade away an acclaimed top prospect for a sore armed (and this was already known prior to the deal) marginal vet who is arbitration eligible.

No, hat, you're wrong and it's not as simple as that. It's as simple as being you're opinion but you know what they say about opinions?

Arbitration-eligible? This is the second post where you've brought this up. Explains how Zambrano's eligibility had any bearing on the Mets.

As for the Lofunzo-argument (even if it was a good trade, the Mets could have gotten more for him): I don't know that and neither do you. The Rangers requests earlier in the season were far more steep than the rumors floating around on this board. Kazmir has a perceived value among the fans, like you, that is not necessarily analogous to his value among people in the know.

Both Piniella and the TB GM said that they thought Kazmir was ready. Piniella went as far as to say, "[Kazmir] is the most major-league ready pitcher in our organization."
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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