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Postby hybrid » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:26 pm

Amazinz wrote:Both Piniella and the TB GM said that they thought Kazmir was ready. Piniella went as far as to say, "[Kazmir] is the most major-league ready pitcher in our organization."


Look at again, they never said he was ready. They said he was the "most" ready pitcher in the organization. Which isn't saying much at all since the arms in the Rays system are far and few between.
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:09 pm

hybrid wrote:
Amazinz wrote:Both Piniella and the TB GM said that they thought Kazmir was ready. Piniella went as far as to say, "[Kazmir] is the most major-league ready pitcher in our organization."


Look at again, they never said he was ready. They said he was the "most" ready pitcher in the organization. Which isn't saying much at all since the arms in the Rays system are far and few between.

Which brings up another good point. Tampa Bay does not have a good reputation for evaluating and culling pitching talent. Yet everyone is so quick to assume that TB got one over on the Mets. I still believe that remains to be seen.
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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Postby hybrid » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:11 pm

They seemed to do a good enough job with Zambrano for the Mets to want him though. :-b
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Postby Viper8437 » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:15 pm

win a world series first
reyes is my homeboy
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:39 pm

hybrid wrote:They seemed to do a good enough job with Zambrano for the Mets to want him though. :-b

Actually, isn't that why the Mets wanted him? Because his only problems were control issues that the Mets felt they could correct and TB couldn't? And hasn't Kazmir's main problem been control?
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Postby hybrid » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:28 pm

Viper8437 wrote:win a world series first


huh? where did that come from?
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Postby hybrid » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:32 pm

And yes, Peterson feels he can correct Zambrano's control problems. Also, what 20 year old (except Greinke) doesn't have control issues? But yeah the Rays haven't had great success with young pitchers, at the same token they haven't had many with that big of talent.
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Postby thehat » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:12 pm

Amazinz wrote:
thehat wrote:Everyone is saying the Mets made a bad deal because they made a bad deal. It's as simple as this. You do not trade away an acclaimed top prospect for a sore armed (and this was already known prior to the deal) marginal vet who is arbitration eligible.

No, hat, you're wrong and it's not as simple as that. It's as simple as being you're opinion but you know what they say about opinions?

Arbitration-eligible? This is the second post where you've brought this up. Explains how Zambrano's eligibility had any bearing on the Mets.

[/i]


Amazin...the reason I mentioned the arbitration-eligible status of Zambrano is that it's the reason TB didn't want him anymore. He's going to cost a lot more in '05 than in '04...oh, and he can also become a FA after '05 if I'm not mistaken.

And you are absolutely wrong about it being an opinion on my part that this was a dumb deal. Re-read my post. All I'm saying is that the Mets could have gotten Zambrano for less than Kazmir. That is why this was a bad trade. He put himself and the organization over a barrell thinking that they could contend this season, and that was a ridiculous assessment on his part. If you disagree with that, then you're wearing the same blinders as Duquette was when he made this deal. (I'll assume that you at least will admit that stamping the Mets as non-contenders was based on fact, or at least reality, far more than opinion.)
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Postby Viper8437 » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:44 pm

i think they have him thorugh 07
not sure though
and they have fixed his pitching problems
one of hims games before he went on the DL
7in 0ER 5K 2BB 2Hits
not bad
granted it wasonly one game
but i t was agianst houston
so he seems to have gaiend some control
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:14 am

2 walks in 7 innings is hardly gaining control. Not to mention it's only one game, just like Kazmir's debut.

Bottom line: Both teams are out of the race this year. Therefore, future seasons are the only important factors in seeing who won the trade. The Mets have a pitcher who is going to be paid a lot of money, for one season, and then he'll become a FA. The Rays have arguably the top pitcing prospect in the minors, and probably the best lefty prospect in the minors. So, one season of a wild pitcher who has never had success, or multiple years of the top lefty prospect in baseball for a much cheaper price :-? Add to that that Zam might miss all of next season with TJ surgery and this trade is horrible. Man I can't even fathom the amount of spin that needs to be put on this thing to make it seem even :-° I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.
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