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by **Absolutely Adequate** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:22 am

As a Mets fan, I hate the trade. However, I do believe that Rick Peterson has earned the benefit of the doubt. He's been a great talent evaluator/mentor in the past and if he says that he can straighten out Zambrano's control and turn him into a top-notch pitcher then I believe him.

Part of the reason I can rationalize this trade, however, is because I don't think Kazmir will be as good as people here seem to think. His size almost assures me that he will either be moved to the pen or will suffer an awful injury at some point.

As to the point that we could have traded Kazmir for Soriano, I'd like to see a quote from Rangers management where they say that the trade was on the table. Just because rumor says that it was doesn't mean that it was. Maybe most GMs have the same doubts that I have about Kazmir and Zambrano was the best we could do. Unless you're Jim Duquette, we'll never know.

Yes, I feel that we shouldn't have made the trade, but I don't think that we should automatically assume that the bandwagon is right about one side getting the better side of the deal. See: Kevin Millwood for Johnny Estrada.

by **George_Foreman** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:26 am

Absolutely Adequate wrote:Yes, I feel that we shouldn't have made the trade, but I don't think that we should automatically assume that the bandwagon is right about one side getting the better side of the deal. See: Kevin Millwood for Johnny Estrada.

point taken, but remember that the estrada deal was made due to salary reason, not a vague hope at the wildcard.

and it is VERY easy to argue that losing millwood really hurt the braves that year. IIRC, they didn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs that year, and, despite a solid lineup, they were hurting for pitching.

by **hybrid** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:43 am

Just to make a few comments:

Yeah, Peterson is a good pitching coach I agree. Though hasn't his success mainly come with Hudson, Zito, and Mulder? Sorry not to familiar with his career other then that. If so they are pretty different then Zambrano's case.

All pitchers are pretty much going to get injured at some point in time. I wish he was bigger to, but there still have been a lot of pitchers around 6'1" to pitch just fine in the majors. Of course size is against him though.

The Millwood / Estrada trade was purely financial. Braves weren't going to resign him and didn't want to pay him. Millwood in my opinion is/was pretty overrated in general. He has had 2 good years out of 7 now, other then that is has just been an average pitcher during his career.

by **Absolutely Adequate** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:53 am

Obviously the Millwood deal was a financial deal. Clearly. However, my point was more about how sometimes the accepted wisdom is wrong.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been my perception that the Oakland staff has gotten worse since Peterson left the building.

I don't know. I hate the deal. I remember commenting when I first heard about it that I felt like I've been shot - and, keeping in mind that I have actually been shot, I know whereof I speak. But I feel that Peterson and Duquette (hopefully) have more knowledge than I do about both Kazmir and Zambrano.

Honestly, the Benson deal bothered me more, though I didn't like either. In any case, I'm just trying to justify my teams moves so I don't feel like it's been another year down the drain. Cut me some slack. My team traded away a guy that threw 4 no-hitters in a row when he was in high-school. For Victor Zambrano. Let me live in my fantasy world where this is somewhat okay, huh?

by **hybrid** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:02 am

Hey, the Rays gave up Abreu for Stocker. Which might be one of the worst trades ever that I can remember, so I can sympathize. ;-)

For both of our sakes I hope Zambrano becomes better in NY (he's a good guy) and Kazmir becomes a solid pitcher as well.

by **Amazinz** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:11 am

Well that last outing by Kazmir was impressive. ;-D

by **LBJackal** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:34 am

Yeah not too shabby. Other than the 3 walks, it was very encouraging for next season. Once he gets his control......... watch out! But I bet they wish they had Zambrano back :-b

by **Viper8437** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:04 am

sorry i had to bring this up after today

he had a great outing

2in 6H 7ER 3BB 3K 1HR

;-D

by **hybrid** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:53 am

Does this make you feel good about yourself? That a 20 year old didn't pitch well?

Maybe I should go bring up every thread on a young pitcher that didn't do well, sheesh.

(Looks for Capellan's thread)

by **Viper8437** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:02 am

yes

it does :-D

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