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Is 3B the new OF?

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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:57 am

The Cow wrote:Don't forget Aaron Boone a very servicable player.


I am interested to see his eligibility next year. :-?
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Postby Registered_Guest » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:08 am

Sportsline has a minor league database & has player creation (so you can basicallly draft any minor leaguer you want).

Yahoo is too easy for people to quit IMO (and you can't easily replace them). It's $8/yr to play on Sportsline for year round access for us -- you can't even feed a child in Beirut for that little per day.
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Postby George_Foreman » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:28 am

Registered_Guest wrote:you can't even feed a child in Beirut for that little per day.


nice! ;-D

i think the problem with yahoo is that most people do what i'm going to do next year: use it for practicing their drafts. i'll probably join 10 leagues next year if i can swing it, just so i can get experience drafting. oh, i'll maintain all of them as best i can, but i'm willing to bet a lot of people just draft and forget about it.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

George_Foreman wrote:
Registered_Guest wrote:you can't even feed a child in Beirut for that little per day.


nice! ;-D

i think the problem with yahoo is that most people do what i'm going to do next year: use it for practicing their drafts. i'll probably join 10 leagues next year if i can swing it, just so i can get experience drafting. oh, i'll maintain all of them as best i can, but i'm willing to bet a lot of people just draft and forget about it.


I hate it when people do that. :-t Just because others do it doesn't make it right. You want practice, participate in a few of the many mocks that go on here in the offseason. You can even reference the ones that you don't partake in. I just hate it when people take spots in public leagues that other people would actually use. :-/
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Postby Registered_Guest » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:10 am

If it wasn't free.....people wouldn't do it. Since they are, you just have to expect it.

I know I've done practice drafts using Yahoo -- it's there, it's free, it's my choice. That's why they have Private leagues as well (even though I've found them to be almost as dead in cases).
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Postby John Bonzo » Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:38 am

Dont forget about defense though....Lamb is really terrible defensively. Next year I would expect to see about the same as this season: Ensberg getting the majority of the starts at 3B, with Lamb getting 3B time, more 1B time, and pinch hits.



LBJackal wrote:Ensberg? I don't think he'll start over Lamb at 3B... Jimy should have had Lamb out there more often, if anything. Ensberg had half a good season, in a platoon role that helped him get those deceiving stats as a 28 year old rookie. As a 29 year old sophomore he showed his true colours.

In OPS, Lamb won by 120 points. That is the easiest way to tell the value of a hitter. And Lamb destroyed Ensberg. He had a better BA, OBA, SLG, his AB/HR was twice as good as Ensberg's, his range is a lot better (RF is 3.17 to Ensberg's 2.51). I really don't see why Ensberg would start over Lamb.

Before the season, during the season, and now after the season I've given evidence of why Lamb is better, and should start, but still Ensberg is seen as the 3B of the future. Why? I'd compare him to Tatis, but Tatis actually had a good full season.
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Postby Onyx » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:36 pm

Don't think he's been mentioned but UPTON could be starting at 3rd aswell. Pinella has said he likes Lugo at SS. :-?
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:43 pm

John Bonzo wrote:Dont forget about defense though....Lamb is really terrible defensively. Next year I would expect to see about the same as this season: Ensberg getting the majority of the starts at 3B, with Lamb getting 3B time, more 1B time, and pinch hits.



LBJackal wrote:Ensberg? I don't think he'll start over Lamb at 3B... Jimy should have had Lamb out there more often, if anything. Ensberg had half a good season, in a platoon role that helped him get those deceiving stats as a 28 year old rookie. As a 29 year old sophomore he showed his true colours.

In OPS, Lamb won by 120 points. That is the easiest way to tell the value of a hitter. And Lamb destroyed Ensberg. He had a better BA, OBA, SLG, his AB/HR was twice as good as Ensberg's, his range is a lot better (RF is 3.17 to Ensberg's 2.51). I really don't see why Ensberg would start over Lamb.

Before the season, during the season, and now after the season I've given evidence of why Lamb is better, and should start, but still Ensberg is seen as the 3B of the future. Why? I'd compare him to Tatis, but Tatis actually had a good full season.


It's right there in my quote:

"He had a better BA, OBA, SLG, his AB/HR was twice as good as Ensberg's, his range is a lot better (RF is 3.17 to Ensberg's 2.51)."

Those are based on 3B stats only as well. And they both play in the same parks, with the same pitchers on the mound. So in this case I think RF is accurate. I can't find any part of the game that Ensberg has been better at...
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Postby John Bonzo » Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:29 pm

Actually, Lamb's range factor was .292 at third base this season (3.17...where did you get that from???). Ensberg's was .239, but with a better fielding percentage (.949 verses Lamb's .919). Ensberg had 13 errors at 3B in 118 games, while Lamb had 13 errors in 57 games at 3B.

I am not a big RF fan anyways....Engberg's (2.84) last season was better than Rolen's (2.74), and everyone knows that Rolen was a much better defensive third baseman that Ensberg was last season.

I got all these stats from ESPN's fielding stats for 2004. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=8&season=2004&seasonType=2&split=81&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=rangeFactor&qualified=0

I have watched plenty of Astros games, and Lamb can't even accurately throw the ball to first base consistently. Also, he seems to makes errors at crucial times in the game.

While I certainly agree that Lamb swings a better stick than Ensberg; I think it is absurd to think that Lamb is a better defensive third baseman than Ensberg (actually, Lamb is probably one of the 3 or 4 worst in the league with at least 50 games played there this season). I also agree that Lamb's bat warrants his playing time, but in my opinion, making him the full-time starter is not as simple and clear as you think it to be.
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:13 am

Yeah I calculated the RFs myself. I forgot to subtract errors from total chances. It doens't make much of a difference. Lamb's RF was still better than Ensberg's. His RF is quite a bit higher than Ensberg's. I don't see any evidence that Ensberg is better defensively. Lamb's 2.92 is actually near the league lead amongst 3B's, and Ensberg's 2.39 is 2nd worst amongst starting 3B's. If that's supposed to be his strongsuit - yikes. And the usual inaccuracies taht occur with RF - team's having different pitchers, in different ballparks, etc don't apply here because they oth play for the same team.

I can see that watching him play might give you the sense that Ensberg is better. Most of the time, player's with a high FP% are viewed as good defensively. Jeter fans thought that because he makes so few errors, he must be great; well, every single respected defensive measure has him as consistently one of the worst in baseball for quite some time.

So I don't see how making Lamb the starter isn't as simple as I make it out to be; why is it so hard? He's a far better hitter, and if anything he's right on par with Ensberg defesnively - arguably better than Ensberg defensively, to boot. What is so hard about putting him in the lineup?
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