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Barry Bonds mistress has "proof" he used steroids

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Postby red » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:18 pm

wrveres wrote:what we can't discuss race? :-o

thats what it is ...

The hatred you all have for this man ...

Is because he is black ...

what else can it be?

A white man hits 70 homeruns while under performance enchancing drugs and the world cheers for him ..

a black man does it and he is scum ...

Even Henry Aaron said he would have taken performance enchaners if they were avialble when he played .... ummm excuse me Hank, but they were very very available ...

Oh yeah they booed that black man tooo ..

interesting


I haven't read the rest of this thread, yet, maybe someone has already posted: but this is a not-great theory here: Aaron is loved (and black) and admired, and people are trying to protect the legitimacy of his record from Bonds (who is also black). Giambi is the poster-boy for roids right now, the most damaged person in the whole roid episode so far-- and he's white.
Just because people dont' like Barry doesn't mean they don't like Barry because he's black.
That's a pretty big (and unfair) assumption for you to be making.
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:54 pm

wrveres wrote:I never said that. I don't trust Jose at all and have no reason to believe him. Thats twice i said that ..

here is three..

Jose Canseco is a lair ...


You never said that?? You have been defending Bonds to no end and calling McGwire a junkie. To me, that's looks a hell of a lot like Bonds is innocent yet McGwire is guilty. You have still constantly avoided the question here. When it comes to Bonds, you always turn it around to McGwire. 1 has nothing to do with the other. If Bonds is guilty, he's guilty. If McGwire is, he is.

wrveres wrote:
Don't tell me you are concerned about Barry's health.
You just don't want him breaking your records with a performance enchaning supplement
So I ask you ...
How are Andro and a Steriod different? :-?
Both are performance enchancers, right ?
So are ballplayers allowed to get hopped up on anything they want, just so as its legal? Thats ok huh?

Oh and BTW, Apparenttly all the dangers of Andro were not really known know while Mark was takening them now were they? If it was soooooo okay that Mark was taking performance enchancers, why the hell did he quit taking them as soon as everybody found out? hmmmm


You're not serious, are you?? 1 is legal and the other is not. Just because the results are similar doesn't mean anything. What about Creatine?? Protein shakes?? Your failure to see the difference is alarming. 1 you can walk into a nutrtion store and the other, you need to contact a lab or a pusher. No difference, right?? ;-7

I wanted to have an intelligent discussion here but now realize that is impossible. Every time someone brings up a valid point, you ignore it and just bash McGwire. If that doesn't work, then the race card or the alleged stereotypes come out. This thread is about Bonds. If he is an adulterer or drug user, then that's what he is. Whether every other player or no other players are the same is immaterial. It doesn't make what he did any less wrong.
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Postby blankman » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:44 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Don't tell me you are concerned about Barry's health.
You just don't want him breaking your records with a performance enchaning supplement
So I ask you ...
How are Andro and a Steriod different? :-?
Both are performance enchancers, right ?
So are ballplayers allowed to get hopped up on anything they want, just so as its legal? Thats ok huh?

Oh and BTW, Apparenttly all the dangers of Andro were not really known know while Mark was takening them now were they? If it was soooooo okay that Mark was taking performance enchancers, why the hell did he quit taking them as soon as everybody found out? hmmmm


You're not serious, are you?? 1 is legal and the other is not. Just because the results are similar doesn't mean anything. What about Creatine?? Protein shakes?? Your failure to see the difference is alarming. 1 you can walk into a nutrtion store and the other, you need to contact a lab or a pusher. No difference, right?? ;-7

I wanted to have an intelligent discussion here but now realize that is impossible. Every time someone brings up a valid point, you ignore it and just bash McGwire. If that doesn't work, then the race card or the alleged stereotypes come out. This thread is about Bonds. If he is an adulterer or drug user, then that's what he is. Whether every other player or no other players are the same is immaterial. It doesn't make what he did any less wrong.


Agreed Lo.
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Postby lesgrant » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:25 pm

While I’m not the biggest Barry Bonds fan, I think it’s ridiculously unfair to use the steroids issue to segue into attacking him for cheating on his wife. Professional athletes are notorious for road-trip affairs. Just about every pro jock engages in that form of adultery at one time or another. Let’s not “think of the kids” in this instance. It’s cheap.

With respects to the Jezebel du jour, just because someone is a gold digger, it doesn’t mean that they are lying about their experiences. In fact, there is no real correlation between the two. If money is her motive for doing things, then we’re all guilty. Every person I know that has ever written a book has done so for money. Every person I know that goes to work, does so for money. In fact, many people on this very board play fantasy baseball for (drum roll) MONEY. Anyone that uses the gold digging attack here is really just grasping at straws in defense of Bonds. If she hangs onto her phone tapes for the next sixty years to cash in on this story, that does not make the phone tapes themselves phony (no pun).

Is she telling the entire truth? Probably not. But the likely falsehoods would come with respects to assertions which can’t be confirmed. A phone message can be confirmed. Grand Jury testimony can, eventually, be confirmed. To say she’s lying about that stuff is burying one’s head in the sand. And with respects to the phone message: the transcripts reveal that Bonds, himself, is saying things that a guy only says to a woman he’s intimate with. I’ve never called my girlfriend and overtly stated, “Yes we have an intimate relationship.” To attack the credibility of the tapes because such a statement is not on them is ridiculous.

moochman wrote:The beauty of baseball's HR record, probably the most esteemed record in all of sports, is that a HR is a HR is a HR. It was easy to compare the number that Ruth hit with the number that Aaron hit because they were playing under the rules of the game. Ruth was the most prodigious HR hitter of all time. His HRs were legendary, no one else was hitting 400+ foot HRs like him.


Just a point: a HR is not a HR. Please don’t continue to propagate this myth about the purity of baseball stats when every ballpark has its unique dimensions. A HR is not a HR in the same way a free throw is a free throw or an extra point is an extra point. There is no purity in baseball statistics that would enable you to compare players from different eras or leagues.

Now with respects to race:

Conservatives, deliberately or inadvertently, have this habit of shining attention on the seemingly least credible individuals who complain about racial issues. I think our broader society tends to follow suit as well. And, in the end, it does a serious disservice to the issue.

Is Barry Bonds a victim of racism? Yes and no.

No he isn’t. As the son of a professional athlete, race was not something that prevented him from playing major league ball in the same way race inhibits the average person from getting a job with a particular firm or getting promoted within that firm. Sheer economics shield Bonds from many of the day to day injustices that many African Americans have to endure in this country. Stuff like cabs passing you up, not getting waited on in a store or being denied a mortgage in a certain neighborhood are not things that he has to deal with. Although the cab stuff happens to black celebs all the time.

Yes he is. Within his world of MLB, Bonds, like EVERY OTHER PLAYER OF COLOR, experiences some level of racism, whether it be from the Marge Shotts of the world, or the Joe Hometown Fan or Beat Reporter. It has always been the case in MLB. Things have not changed as much as some people would like to think. Not only have I heard racist crap from the stands yelled at players, it’s been yelled at me, a spectator. Face it, we live in a racist society. And Bond’s comments about Boston being a racist place, ironically, are right on. It doesn’t take long for any black resident to come to that conclusion. (and Boston fans if you want to challenge my direct experience with this issue, bring it on, just start another thread) The sad thing is that the only time someone pays attention to it is in the wrong context.

Steroids are the wrong context for the race debate in baseball. While it may be true that there is a media double standard with respects to Bonds, that does not change the facts of his associations with BALCO, his claim to have unknowingly taken steroids after proclaiming that knows everything that goes into his body, nor all of the postal and financial records which link him to purchasing steroids and having them delivered nor the witness who says he admitted using them to her as well as her own observations of his physique and temperament.

There is a lynch mob out there, but they’re not looking to string Bonds up because of his skin color as much as they are looking to hang him for being one of a handful of players actually caught cheating. And this handful of martyrs is purely the fault of MLB and our buddy Bud. It isn’t even the fault of the Players’ Union. If MLB wanted to test for steroids, they did not need to negotiate with the Union, as steroids are illegal and cannot be protected by any CBA reached with any union, let alone a sports union.

Personally, I also blame the media for much of this. They, more than anyone, is responsible for this situation.

When MM was busted with a bottle of Andro, the media unanimously proclaimed that it was a “nutritional supplement” Gammons, Lupika, Stark, and many many others were actively sweeping this issue under the rug so that they could sell papers and get ratings off of the HR chase.

Now, they are going tabloid on this issue, giving everyone and anyone book deals and airtime to further murk up the debate. And throughout the entire time, the media constantly claims that they were in the dark about steroids and the effects they had on the game.

It’s the same stupid hypocritical sports media that will say to T.O., ‘Why are you drawing attention to yourself with these end-zone celebrations?’ just as they are drawing attention to him by reporting the same story over and over again in the press. Only now, it’s “we never knew, but now that we do, we’re gonna milk it”.

BTW: If you want a real racial double standard look at Owens vs Schilling. TO was “stupid” and “selfish” to try and play with his ankle in the Super Bowl but Schilling was “courageous” for pitching with his ankle in the ALCS. His alleged bloody sock is going to the HOF. Even the Boston based doctors had a double standard in their diagnosis of Owens.

Anyhoo, back to Barry. He deserves the criticism he’s getting. But MLB deserves the lion’s share for making him, Giambi, and a handful of others as scapegoats for a league wide problem.

The solution: Show fans the list (and every other list) of those who test and have tested positive for sports enhancing drugs. It won’t get everyone, but at least the average fan will have a more complete picture of the scope of this problem. No more of this between 5 and 7 percent BS. It’s a complete cover-up. Why have a cap at 7% unless you deliberately wanted to frame the issue as being limited to a small number of players? It’s all a lie.

Until the truth is sorted out we are being played for fools and are left to debate the minutiae of Barry’s mistress’ answering machine messages, whether he injected himself or rubbed it in and (my favorite) the notion that if it’s not on ESPN, then it must not be credible.
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Postby RugbyD » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:32 pm

Lofunzo wrote: 1 you can walk into a nutrtion store and the other, you need to contact a lab or a pusher. No difference, right?? ;-7
.


While your acknowledgment of the distinction between creatine and roids is correct, this is a specious argument for right and wrong, if that's the point you were trying to make. Not sure if it was.
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:03 pm

RugbyD wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: 1 you can walk into a nutrtion store and the other, you need to contact a lab or a pusher. No difference, right?? ;-7
.


While your acknowledgment of the distinction between creatine and roids is correct, this is a specious argument for right and wrong, if that's the point you were trying to make. Not sure if it was.


I was just showing 1 difference between the 2. He was making it sound like there was no difference between taking steroids or using Andro. If there was no difference, they would either both be illegal or legal. Using his logic, I guess that merely lifting weights gives you an unfair advantage. ;-7
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Postby red » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:08 pm

eftda wrote:
lesgrant wrote:Also, I have doubts that the tapes are real becase I've never heard them and for the reasons I already have.


I think this is my favorite line of the entire thread.

I've never had sex with Madonna but I don't doubt it when she says she's not a virgin...

Why the heck would she play the tapes for you?!
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