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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:03 pm
by jellyroll
This thread has reached the point of no return. Too many partial posters.

1. She IS looking for reimbursement of time spent with Bonds, and is a scorned woman with possible malicious intent.

JONES: Yes she is a woman scorned, Geraldo.

and

BELL: I would like the equivalent of what was owed to me, which was either the house or the two-years income that I lost which almost equates to each other. And then I want to get on with my life and be able to do so. And at this point, I can't. And it is difficult to watch him on TV every day smiling and talking about what a great familyman he is, what a great athlete and giving credit a lot of credit to a lot of people.


2. The Steroids mentioned is only in reference to healing.

BELL: "The way he explained to me was that what he was using was helping him recover quicker from his injuries. And that as a result of that it caused the muscles and then the tendons to grow at a faster than the joint could handle."

It is a normal for steroids to be introduced to promote/expedite healing. We probably need a doctor to expound on possible and correct usage.

conclusion: I'm not saying he didn't take steroids but this is far from a definitive indictment of Bonds using performance enhancers.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:11 pm
by DieHardCubbie
Guys....lets settle this back down please.... :-)

and definately leave the racist stuff out of it.... }:-)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:14 pm
by Lofunzo
eftda wrote:lesgrant, this isn't a "Did Bonds take Player Enchancement Drugs" thread.. its about the interview.


But it turned into a steroid discussion, of which you have been greatly involved. :-?

DK.......I asked you the question yesterday (I believe) about what your opinion was. I ask again. In your opinion, did Bonds ever use steroids?? I know that you want proof before prosecuting him and I can respect that but I just want your opinion here.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:16 pm
by lesgrant
DK wrote:
lesgrant wrote:
DK wrote:
lesgrant wrote:Also, what do you make of the point that was made earlier that there has been no lawsuit from anyone over these allegations?

Why hasn’t anyone sued the SF Chronicle? Conseco? Regan Books? Bonds’ mistress?


Why is Bonds going to be suiting up Opening Day for the Giants? Hasn't he been "proven", after all, to be a user?

I will repeat my previous statement.

DK wrote:
lesgrant wrote:“Barry Bonds has not used steroids.”

If you seriously believe that, then I have to take anything you say on any topic with a grain of salt.


lesgrant, look me in the avatar and say:

"Barry Bonds has been proven to use steroids."

If you seriously believe that, then I have to take anything you say on any topic with a grain of salt.


The reason why Bonds is suiting up for opening day is because baseball is not going to sanction him. Just like they are not going to sanction Giambi of Sheffield. In Shef's case, he openly admitted to using 'roids last season. What's your point?


Well, eftda hit another point in the fact that if he sued anyone, he'd
A: Just get murdered by the press some more
B: Prove that he actually cares what people think of him

When the latter is nothing but true. Again, I will ask you one more time, since you cleverly evaded it the first time:

lesgrant, look me in the avatar and say:

"Barry Bonds has been proven to use steroids."

If you seriously believe that, then I have to take anything you say on any topic with a grain of salt.


All this thread is about is Bonds supporters grasping at straws as the circumstantial evidence piles up.

DK, was it “proven” that Scott Peterson murdered his wife?
Yes.

Did anyone see him do it?
No.

Was there any physical evidence linking him to the crime?
No.

So quit trying to desperately apply higher standards of proof to Barry Bonds. It’s almost as silly as your defensive stats defense.

Based on the circumstantial evidence that I’ve read about, including:

Grand jury testimony

postal records that show roids were shipped to him from BALCO

bank records that show Bonds paid for roids shipped from BALCO

eyewitness accounts from his trainer who said he gave it to Bonds

eyewitness accounts from his girlfriend who said Bonds admitted using to recover from injuries quicker, was afraid of how he would look to the fans, her observations of his acne, temper and rapid muscle growth

statistical spike – having never hit 50, he suddenly jacks 70+

unnatural muscle growth in Bonds’ late thirties/early forties – sorry but you don’t put muscle on like that on his side of 35 years of age

I can say that:

Barry Bonds, more likely than not, used steroids during his MLB career.

And depending upon the specifics of the grand jury proceedings and the criminal case against BALCO, I’m confident that I’ll be able to say that Barry Bonds used steroids beyond a reasonable doubt. People have been convicted of cocaine trafficking on less than what I’ve listed above. Give me a break.

Beyond that DK, Chris Russo, one of Bonds’ biggest fans in the media (and elsewhere for that matter) has said on the air that he spoke with a friend of his in the Justice Department. According to his friend, they have Bonds “nailed” on everything, including receiving steroids, paying for them, and taking them. He’s just not the center of their investigation. BALCO is.

Russo would NEVER slander his favorite player of all time, Barry Bonds. Why don’t you call WFAN and argue with Bonds’ biggest fan whether or not Bonds used roids?

Give it up buddy. You’re one of those people who will only accept some pie in the sky standard of “proof” for this.

And I LOVE your rationale for why Bonds wouldn’t sue. How about this one:

In order to sue someone for libel/slander you have to demonstrate that the statements made were false.

It’s very simple. It’s only complicated for people trying twist it around to show that Bonds isn’t on roids.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:26 pm
by red
lesgrant wrote:Beyond that DK, Chris Russo, one of Bonds’ biggest fans in the media (and elsewhere for that matter) has said on the air that he spoke with a friend of his in the Justice Department. According to his friend, they have Bonds “nailed” on everything, including receiving steroids, paying for them, and taking them. He’s just not the center of their investigation. BALCO is.

Russo would NEVER slander his favorite player of all time, Barry Bonds. Why don’t you call WFAN and argue with Bonds’ biggest fan whether or not Bonds used roids?


Dude, is this true?
I haven't heard this (I have a full time job now and don't listen to the FAN as much as I did in the post 9-11 NYC economy... ) but I have heard, for years, Russo say that there's no proof-- people just hate Bonds, he's not the only guy who's bulked up... blah blah. IF he's said this- and on the radio-- (and a simulcast nationally on TV) I can all but guarantee the "proof" is coming.

I agree with Lesgrant that no more proof is needed. But if Russo, of all people, said that on the radio- then I've got to believe that the type of proof that will even make the blind see is coming around eventually.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:31 pm
by Lofunzo
Lesgrant.......I love the thought and effort that you put into your posts but are you really gonna use Maddog to back up your claims?? :-o :-D

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:35 pm
by DK
Lofunzo wrote:
eftda wrote:lesgrant, this isn't a "Did Bonds take Player Enchancement Drugs" thread.. its about the interview.


But it turned into a steroid discussion, of which you have been greatly involved. :-?

DK.......I asked you the question yesterday (I believe) about what your opinion was. I ask again. In your opinion, did Bonds ever use steroids?? I know that you want proof before prosecuting him and I can respect that but I just want your opinion here.


I didn't realize you asked me that yesterday.

I don't really have an opinion. I try not to base too many of my opinions when there are no real facts to base them on. Same with the OJ trial.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:42 pm
by lesgrant
red wrote:
lesgrant wrote:Beyond that DK, Chris Russo, one of Bonds’ biggest fans in the media (and elsewhere for that matter) has said on the air that he spoke with a friend of his in the Justice Department. According to his friend, they have Bonds “nailed” on everything, including receiving steroids, paying for them, and taking them. He’s just not the center of their investigation. BALCO is.

Russo would NEVER slander his favorite player of all time, Barry Bonds. Why don’t you call WFAN and argue with Bonds’ biggest fan whether or not Bonds used roids?


Dude, is this true?
I haven't heard this (I have a full time job now and don't listen to the FAN as much as I did in the post 9-11 NYC economy... ) but I have heard, for years, Russo say that there's no proof-- people just hate Bonds, he's not the only guy who's bulked up... blah blah. IF he's said this- and on the radio-- (and a simulcast nationally on TV) I can all but guarantee the "proof" is coming.

I agree with Lesgrant that no more proof is needed. But if Russo, of all people, said that on the radio- then I've got to believe that the type of proof that will even make the blind see is coming around eventually.


Yes Russo said it.

It was in December when the SF Chronicle story came out. He said that he could not deny the allegations anymore. He also said he was crushed that the allegations turned out to be true. He accepted the SF Chronicle story as the truth given that he knew the writer personally. Then he detailed his friend in the Justice Department saying they had Bond’s “nailed”. I also got that his Justice Department source confirmed what was leaked about the GJ.

It was the most contrite that I’d ever heard him. I actually felt sorry for him, given that Bonds was his favorite player.

You know it had to be bad if I, a Yankee fan, was going to feel sorry for him.

And in a way, I feel bad for the many on this board who still defend Bonds. It’s a shame that their loyalty is wasted on someone who doesn’t deserve it.

For those of you outside NYC, Russo is the Mad Dog half of the radio team of Mike and the Mad Dog. He’s a huge Giants fan and Bonds is his favorite player. He has a personal relationship with Bonds and defends him on the air at every opportunity. Russo routinely puts Bonds at the top of any all time greatest list. It doesn’t matter the stat in question, Bonds is the greatest player to ever pick up a bat, according to Russo.

IMO, it was the grand jury testimony that turned him. Up until that point, he defended Bonds all the way.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:45 pm
by lesgrant
Lofunzo wrote:Lesgrant.......I love the thought and effort that you put into your posts but are you really gonna use Maddog to back up your claims?? :-o :-D


I KNOW!! LOL

I only do it because he's the biggest Bonds fan alive. If he can accept that Bonds used 'roids, then any SF fan or Bonds fan should be able to.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:48 pm
by DK
lesgrant wrote:All this thread is about is Bonds supporters grasping at straws as the circumstantial evidence piles up.

DK, was it “proven” that Scott Peterson murdered his wife?
Yes.

Did anyone see him do it?
No.

Was there any physical evidence linking him to the crime?
No.

Who was talking about Scott Peterson? I sure wasn't. And you say my defense is ridiculous. After all, murder is equivalent to steroids. ;-7

Grand jury testimony

Which was given out by the SF Chronicle, notorious for Bonds-bashing, citing an unidentified source. Real strong evidence you have there.

postal records that show roids were shipped to him from BALCO

bank records that show Bonds paid for roids shipped from BALCO

These two were subpeonead for, and never found. There is no evidence indicating this that I know of. Feel free to prove me wrong.

eyewitness accounts from his trainer who said he gave it to Bonds

Greg Anderson, right. The guy who has all the credibility of Jose Canseco.

eyewitness accounts from his girlfriend who said Bonds admitted using to recover from injuries quicker, was afraid of how he would look to the fans, her observations of his acne, temper and rapid muscle growth

On the Geraldo Rivera show, promoting a book because she, like Canseco, needs the money.

statistical spike – having never hit 50, he suddenly jacks 70+

Oh, I forgot, it's impossible to have a good season when you get older. Thanks for reminding me.

unnatural muscle growth in Bonds’ late thirties/early forties – sorry but you don’t put muscle on like that on his side of 35 years of age

Again, says you, the health expert. Ever think that the weight training Bonds does might just be a little more rigorous than the average Joe?

I can say that:

Barry Bonds, more likely than not, used steroids during his MLB career.

And I can say that, you still have no evidence. So we're even.

And depending upon the specifics of the grand jury proceedings and the criminal case against BALCO, I’m confident that I’ll be able to say that Barry Bonds used steroids beyond a reasonable doubt. People have been convicted of cocaine trafficking on less than what I’ve listed above. Give me a break.

What, the BS evidence above? I don't think I could be convicted for walking across my street with that evidence.

Beyond that DK, Chris Russo, one of Bonds’ biggest fans in the media (and elsewhere for that matter) has said on the air that he spoke with a friend of his in the Justice Department. According to his friend, they have Bonds “nailed” on everything, including receiving steroids, paying for them, and taking them. He’s just not the center of their investigation. BALCO is.

Russo would NEVER slander his favorite player of all time, Barry Bonds. Why don’t you call WFAN and argue with Bonds’ biggest fan whether or not Bonds used roids?

You mistake me for a person who has ever cared what Russo has to say.

Give it up buddy. You’re one of those people who will only accept some pie in the sky standard of “proof” for this.

What, a failed drug test? Haven't seen one of those. I don't think that's too pie in the sky. ;-7

And I LOVE your rationale for why Bonds wouldn’t sue. How about this one:

In order to sue someone for libel/slander you have to demonstrate that the statements made were false.

It’s very simple. It’s only complicated for people trying twist it around to show that Bonds isn’t on roids.


I LOVE your evidence, which proves nothing.

In case you haven't noticed, I haven't twisted anything. I've waited for evidence.

Got any?

Didn't think so.