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Who's superior of the Oakland Trilogy?

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Postby Cooner » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:40 am

LBJackal wrote:it'll help because that park doesn't allow HR's,.


Ask what Matt Morris thinks of this... :-?

Not that I disagree with anything you said- in fact, I agree completely.... ;-D
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Postby tvv44 » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:51 am

Going to StL not only helps him for run support (maybe it won't be as high as last year, but regardless, he'll likely get more than he would if he stayed in Oakland which is the point), it'll help because that park doesn't allow HR's, and overall is a better pitcher's park, and also, he doesn't face a DH. I see absolutely no negative effects of leaving Oakland and going to St. Louis, other than he doesn't know the hitters well, but if I'm not mistaken, unfamiliarity favours pitchers in most cases anyway. I like Mulder for ths year, based on where he's going in drafts.



Couldn't have said it any better myself LBJ. Nicely put ;-D

Mulder will be the man in STL, but Hudson will also be the man in ATL.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:08 am

FatGuyWithAMullet wrote:Hudson is, was, and always will be the best of Oakland's Big Three.

I completely agree. He may have been outshined one year or another by Zito or Mulder but he has consistantly been the best of the big 3.
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Postby ScurvyDog » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:32 am

On a side note - will be fun to watch it this year.

MoneyBall was written about the 2002 draft class. This year will finally be the first test of Billy Beane's strategy.
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Postby fantasyfiend » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:29 pm

domination wrote:
fantasyfiend wrote:
domination wrote:hudson has the highest winning percentage of all active pitchers. now on ATl he will keep doing what he does.

I suspect Mulder to flourish with st louis offecnce behind him.

Zito will have his regular season, as the A's got worse over all, its because they lost their pitchers, their offence is releitvly the same. so zito will be fine.


Hudson is the best of them all IMO.


Can you explain to me, in relevant terms, and with logic, how the A's got worse overrall?

Also, If memory serves me correctly, Mulder's run support ranked pretty high last season, i am almost positive his run support was higher then the cardinals average runs per game over the course of last season.

Out of curiousity, how does him going to St Louis make him "flourish" behind their offense?



the A's got worse overall because they lost two big pitchers, their team is still good. St louis has a better offence then A's and a better team, allowing for more wins. Quite simple.


Ok, so you back out of your stance then about you initially saying 'as a team' the A's got worse overrall?
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:21 pm

SCURVYDOG, welcome back.

Hudson is the best of the 3, but career wise it's close. Hudson only has a .11 edge in era over Zito.

Hudson is the best bet for this year, although the gap might not be as big as some think. Hudson has a 4 year decline in his K rate to 4.9. Turn some of his groundballs into flyballs, and his era could see a rise. I think too much is being made of Mazzone. Yea he's a great coach, but Rocker, Mercker, Avery, Hampton didn't do much there.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:24 pm

HOOTIE wrote:SCURVYDOG, welcome back.

Hudson is the best of the 3, but career wise it's close. Hudson only has a .11 edge in era over Zito.

Hudson is the best bet for this year, although the gap might not be as big as some think. Hudson has a 4 year decline in his K rate to 4.9. Turn some of his groundballs into flyballs, and his era could see a rise. I think too much is being made of Mazzone. Yea he's a great coach, but Rocker, Mercker, Avery, Hampton didn't do much there.


What do you think of Mulder?? I personally put them like this:

Hudson
Mulder

Zito

I need to see Zito do it over a full season again. I know that Mulder has slipped as well but I have more faith in him turning it around than I do for Zito.
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:42 pm

Mulder had a mysterious hip injury the 2nd half and was horrible.

Zitos hr/9 killed him, but on the plus side his K rate improved to 6.9. I think Zito will rebound a bit to a 4 era. Mulder in the nl, if he's ok, probably can post a high 3 era. I give Mulder a slight edge.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:50 pm

like many others, i say

hudson
mulder

zito


Mulder had a mysterious hip injury the 2nd half and was horrible.


as a cards fan, i have read a whole lot about mulder recently. mulder wasnt found to have any injury at the end of 2004. the cards really studied his medical records and the cards trainer used to work with oakland so medical staffs are on good terms. anyway, the cards are convinced mulder wasnt injured in 2004 and poses no serious injury threat in 2005. their theory is that the problem was mental. with hudson hurt and zito struggling, mulder tried to do too much and ended up really struggling under the pressure at the end of 2004. i dont know which is worse - injury or mental breakdown. i almost prefer injury because that seems easier to fix. there will still be pressure in stl. mulder says he learned from the experience though and doesnt expect it to happen in stl.
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Postby GSes » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:53 pm

its not even close

TIM HUDSON

I been watching these 3 guys since they came up to the bigs and I can make a great argument as to wy Tim Hudson is the BESY pitcher in ALL of Baseball (that looks like a stretch, but its really not, TRUST ME.

The guy has a career
92 - 39 record
3.30 ERA

He has the best winning percentage over the past few years then pretty much any pitcher in the game. He walks few and gives up very few homers.

Hudson is Atlanta........he is going to be even better and is going to give atlanta fans a new greg maddux. b/c that is exactly what he is the new generation maddux.

I expect him to win the cy young in 2005 b/c in atlanta his ERA will go down as he makes the transition to the NL from the AL and Marcus Giles & Rafael Furcal are gonna eat up all the ground balls and turn a ton of double plays. His strikeouts will go up a bit in the NL and his era and whip will go down. hudson in for a big season.

I project hudson for
20 wins
2.70 ERA
1.10 Whip
155 K's

Mulder will have a big year in St. Louis and as soneone mentioned earlier he is a virtual lock for 20 wins b/c of that offense backing him as long as he stays healthy which has been a huge problem for him the last few years.

Zito should rebound but will not repeat his cy season obviously.

I think Mulder will go
20 wins
3.45 ERA
1.15 Whip
150 K's

zito will go
14 Wins
3.65 ERA
1.20 Whip
170 K'd
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